Is it Okay to copy someones team???
by Mr Baseball World » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:06 pm
I agree Max that you hit it with that............could even go more basic and mention the forward pass.
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by fraank123 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:06 pm
obviously i'm a relative neophyte here at SOM online and my life experience with the leagues and the involved interactions with the other managers are significantly limited plus I'm still generally in the giddy, euphoric stage of having finally discovered this great site and version of SOM but this issue kind of helps bring me back down to earth wrestling with how i feel.
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.
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by bkeat23 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:13 pm
[quote:391a4c13b9="fraank123"]obviously i'm a relative neophyte here at SOM online and my life experience with the leagues and the involved interactions with the other managers are significantly limited plus I'm still generally in the giddy, euphoric stage of having finally discovered this great site and version of SOM but this issue kind of helps bring me back down to earth wrestling with how i feel.
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.[/quote:391a4c13b9]
There's nothing in the rules of golf against hitting the kid with a 9-iron upside the head. :P
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.[/quote:391a4c13b9]
There's nothing in the rules of golf against hitting the kid with a 9-iron upside the head. :P
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by Valen » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:13 pm
[quote:de0fbb1cc2]Perhaps a better analogy is what microsoft tries to do to apple, and maybe vice versa.
"Hey, you have an Ipad, so we'll make a thinkpad."
[/quote:de0fbb1cc2]
I think that is an excellent analogy. Lotus put out a spreadsheet. It was highly successful. So Microsoft put out a spreadsheet. It did all the same things in basically the same way. Clearly they copied Lotus. But I do not know of anyone who refused to use Microsoft Office because of it.
"Hey, you have an Ipad, so we'll make a thinkpad."
[/quote:de0fbb1cc2]
I think that is an excellent analogy. Lotus put out a spreadsheet. It was highly successful. So Microsoft put out a spreadsheet. It did all the same things in basically the same way. Clearly they copied Lotus. But I do not know of anyone who refused to use Microsoft Office because of it.
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by bkeat23 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 pm
[quote:74ec411396="Valen"][quote:74ec411396]Perhaps a better analogy is what microsoft tries to do to apple, and maybe vice versa.
"Hey, you have an Ipad, so we'll make a thinkpad."
[/quote:74ec411396]
I think that is an excellent analogy. Lotus put out a spreadsheet. It was highly successful. So Microsoft put out a spreadsheet. It did all the same things in basically the same way. Clearly they copied Lotus. But I do not know of anyone who refused to use Microsoft Office because of it.[/quote:74ec411396]
Don't know too many Unix geeks? :wink:
"Hey, you have an Ipad, so we'll make a thinkpad."
[/quote:74ec411396]
I think that is an excellent analogy. Lotus put out a spreadsheet. It was highly successful. So Microsoft put out a spreadsheet. It did all the same things in basically the same way. Clearly they copied Lotus. But I do not know of anyone who refused to use Microsoft Office because of it.[/quote:74ec411396]
Don't know too many Unix geeks? :wink:
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by bkeat23 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:25 pm
[quote:c3d140dadd="fraank123"]obviously i'm a relative neophyte here at SOM online and my life experience with the leagues and the involved interactions with the other managers are significantly limited plus I'm still generally in the giddy, euphoric stage of having finally discovered this great site and version of SOM but this issue kind of helps bring me back down to earth wrestling with how i feel.
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.[/quote:c3d140dadd]
From USGA on etiquette:
If players follow the guidelines in this Section, it will make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
If a player consistently disregards these guidelines during a round or over a period of time to the detriment of others, it is recommended that the Committee consider taking appropriate disciplinary action against the offending player. Such action may, for example, include prohibiting play for a limited time on the course or in a certain number of competitions. This is considered to be justifiable in terms of protecting the interests of the majority of golfers who wish to play in accordance with these guidelines.
In the case of a serious breach of etiquette, the Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.
On the one hand obviously it seems unethical to copy and use the team/ballpark combination derived by another manager's own efforts and experiences. It's one thing to ask for help from the more experienced on specific issues (help so graciously supplied by many of the more advanced players -- thank you all for that!) but the total copying does certainly seem to cross a ethical fair play line.
Having said (and believing) all of the above, a memory of a golf outing a few years ago comes to mind: i was golfing with a friend and his ultra competitive 18 year old nephew. Whenever one of the better players was in the backswing of a pivotal shot the nephew would start talking or coughing or whatever to intentionally distrupt the opponents concentration. when he was asked about it he simply replied that being quiet is ettiquette not rules -- which begrudgingly i had to admit was correct when viewed from that persepctive. I guess the same philosophy could apply here too.[/quote:c3d140dadd]
From USGA on etiquette:
If players follow the guidelines in this Section, it will make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
If a player consistently disregards these guidelines during a round or over a period of time to the detriment of others, it is recommended that the Committee consider taking appropriate disciplinary action against the offending player. Such action may, for example, include prohibiting play for a limited time on the course or in a certain number of competitions. This is considered to be justifiable in terms of protecting the interests of the majority of golfers who wish to play in accordance with these guidelines.
In the case of a serious breach of etiquette, the Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.
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by Salty » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:34 pm
[quote:134cce15c6="PotKettleBlack"]Really, it's strategic duplication.
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:134cce15c6]
One key diff being that if someone starts to run 'the triangle offense' for example, even all of us non-pros know they are simply implementing a Tex Winters/Phil? move-
and anyone after doing so, claiming that they didn't study the Bulls/Lakers teams would be hoisted on a media/NBA patard.
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:134cce15c6]
One key diff being that if someone starts to run 'the triangle offense' for example, even all of us non-pros know they are simply implementing a Tex Winters/Phil? move-
and anyone after doing so, claiming that they didn't study the Bulls/Lakers teams would be hoisted on a media/NBA patard.
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by PotKettleBlack » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:43 pm
[quote:d49273738d="El-Saltman"][quote:d49273738d="PotKettleBlack"]Really, it's strategic duplication.
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:d49273738d]
One key diff being that if someone starts to run 'the triangle offense' for example, even all of us non-pros know they are simply implementing a Tex Winters/Phil? move-
and anyone after doing so, claiming that they didn't study the Bulls/Lakers teams would be hoisted on a media/NBA patard.[/quote:d49273738d]
Well, name a name, and we can get to hoisting the retard upon his petard.
:twisted:
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:d49273738d]
One key diff being that if someone starts to run 'the triangle offense' for example, even all of us non-pros know they are simply implementing a Tex Winters/Phil? move-
and anyone after doing so, claiming that they didn't study the Bulls/Lakers teams would be hoisted on a media/NBA patard.[/quote:d49273738d]
Well, name a name, and we can get to hoisting the retard upon his petard.
:twisted:
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by motherscratcher » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:25 pm
[quote:2285e9f25d="PotKettleBlack"]Really, it's strategic duplication.
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:2285e9f25d]
But it's not really this either.
What copying the West Coast/etc. would do, would be to take the theory and strategy behind those offenses and try to find similar players to play in a similar way. That's acceptable and not really what we're talking about.
What we're talking about would be to watch the Run-n-Shoot offense and decide to kidnap Warren Moon et al, move them to a different city and play Houston, who has to put together a new team using UDFA and the waiver wire. But, it's OK becuase the league doesn't prohibit it.
Of course this is ridiculous and I stand ready to be corrected and convinced otherwise.
That's why the West Coast/Run-n-shoot/Tampa 2 analogy was put in play by me.[/quote:2285e9f25d]
But it's not really this either.
What copying the West Coast/etc. would do, would be to take the theory and strategy behind those offenses and try to find similar players to play in a similar way. That's acceptable and not really what we're talking about.
What we're talking about would be to watch the Run-n-Shoot offense and decide to kidnap Warren Moon et al, move them to a different city and play Houston, who has to put together a new team using UDFA and the waiver wire. But, it's OK becuase the league doesn't prohibit it.
Of course this is ridiculous and I stand ready to be corrected and convinced otherwise.
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