Bernie pls read - really bad HAL baserunning

[qksilver69]

Hey Bernie,

Wanted you to take a look at this - my team down 3 runs in top of the 9th, we get a runner on 1st with 1 out, and on the double by Gonzalez, HAL sends Hamilton to the plate, only to get him thrown out.

This has got to be corrected, whether it is SOM's issue or TSN's - HAL has to take the game situation into account & hold the runner here. My running was setting to "Normal", if it matters.

T9 J. Drew
3-10
Ground Out (2B)
b-0
T9 C. Gonzalez
2-6
Double (CF)
1-o b-2
T9 J. Hamilton
4-3
gb(3B)x Single (3B)
b-1
T9 J. Votto
2-5
Strike Out
b-0
T9 SUBSTITUTION at P: Huston Street (role: Closer)

[url]http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/league/game_replay.html?group_id=141689&g_id=619[/url]

[apolivka]

Not sure that example was so bad. It was about 50/50 for Hamilton to score there (and advance your runner to 3rd). Under the circumstances (down 4-1 in the 9th) I wouldn't have done it either, but I don't think HAL really thinks it through that far.

At "normal" setting, HAL probably sends him about 10% of the time, and that time the coin flip just didn't go your way. Even if he didn't send him, 98% of the time you lose the game in that situation anyway.

[qksilver69]

The point is that strategically, 3 runs down, you need baserunners, not outs. You literally gain zero from sending a runner in that scenario. In real life the runner would never ever be sent, period. HAL needs to get closer to real life when you're talking last inning.

The only point to taking ANY extra base is if you are down 1 run only, or trying to avoid a DP. But neither was the case here.

[apolivka]

I granted you that point in my reply-"I wouldn't have done it either".

BUT, this sort of thing happens all the time. Runners stupidly run through signs, or fall down and get tagged out, or a coach has an error in judgment even in those exact circumstance. At baserunning set to "normal", it doesn't happen all that often, bit weird things happen.

Here's one from last night:

*** BOTTOM OF INNING 4 ***
0 O.Hudson 5-3 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9 E.Santana
1 R.Wolf 3-9 Single (CF) b-1 F9 E.Santana
1 [1 ] Stolen Base 1-2 F9 E.Santana
1 [ 2 ] J.Carroll 5-5 Strike Out b-0 F9 E.Santana
2 [ 2 ] C.Crawford Int Walk b-1 F9 E.Santana
2 [12 ] C.Granderson 4-4 Fly Out (CF) b-0 fly(CF)x F9 E.Santana

How does Randy Wolf (the PITCHER) steal there? I checked and Caroll, my leadoff hitter, is set to NOT bunt or H&R. My stealing is set to "Conservative". Go figure? Now, Santana does have a +7 hold, which may have something to do with it. :)

[qksilver69]

And Randy Wolf has a good steal card for a P - it's only 6% to get the lead, but if he does, he's got a good number to make it safely.

But my point about the baserunning is that there are certain circumstances where the baserunners will never be that dumb - it's not a matter of running through a stop sign. In the above case, the runner would be jogging into 3B and never entertaining the thought of going home. There's no point to it, period.

The other baserunning issue I am seeing frequently, though it's not quite as egregious, is the fly out/throw out DP when there is already 1 out and runner on 2B. Making the last out at 3B is very rare in MLB, not to say it doesn't happen, once a month you see that bonehead play on SportsCenter, but there should be logic in HAL to make it exceedingly rare. I see it every other night.

[SGTD]

Didn't Hamilton get hurt this year by making a boneheaded running mistake? SGT D

[Risden]

Unfortunately, this does happens in real-life MLB fairly frequently. Not sure how you'd program intelligence smarter than your average 3rd-base coach.

[coyote303]

The point of the OP is that a runner trying to score from first in the bottom of the ninth down by three runs happens just as frequently as if it was the bottom of the first. HAL does not take the strategic situation into account. This is a serious logic flaw.

To say this happens once in a blue moon in MLB does not justify it happening as often in TSN-SOM as any other time (i.e., not the 9th down by three).

[qksilver69]

Correct Coyote, thanks for clarifying.

[quote:9f7627d453]Unfortunately, this does happens in real-life MLB fairly frequently. Not sure how you'd program intelligence smarter than your average 3rd-base coach.[/quote:9f7627d453]

The poster here is missing the point. There are certain situations when runners make dumb mistakes, as do 3rd base coaches. It generally happens in non-leverage situations when no one is paying attention, not when the game is on the line in the 9th inning, and when making an out at home plate when you are 3 runs down has zero strategic rationale. Please, find me more than 1 instance when this has happened in the last 5 years, and I will shut up.

So my point is, in these non-specific situations, we might expect a dumb mistake 1 time out of 100, maybe. For this particular type of situation, it's so rare I've never seen it happen in 30+ years of watching baseball. I have never ever seen a 3B coach send a guy to home plate in the 9th inning of a close game when it gains him nothing (because they are down by more than 1 run), and it potentially costs his team an out. Never ever. It would be grounds for immediate firing, seriously.

[apolivka]

Last night in a very tight game with big playoff implications, with men on 1st and 2nd with two outs in the top of the 9th, Cory Hart of the Brewers was picked off 1st base.

The REALLY bad part of this was that Ryan Braun was at the plate, and Price Fielder was on deck, who had just hit three home runs that night. Hart's lead means absolutely nothing because there is someone in front of him, the runner at 2nd is a big insurance run and the baserunner at 1st was caught napping. Stupid, stupid, stupid! He caused the 3rd out, and inning over. Prince never even gets a chance to potentially hit his fourth HR of the game.

Not the exact situation you are talking about, but one I would argue was even dumber and it happened just last night.