Really?

[Valen]

salt, I understand exactly what you are saying and sympathize. The question to me though is has coming here and complaining about trades made any difference at all? If it has then you are doing the correct thing. If it has not made a difference you might consider this approach is not working and maybe time for a different approach.

[Mr Baseball World]

Evaluation of a trade offer has to include context:

Is it before or after the season started?
What is the cap?
Rosters/needs of the two teams.
If it is preseason, what replacements can be gotten for the "crappy" players in the deal.

[Treyomo]

I sympathize with all those who have struggled with lack of trades or bad trade offers. I have seen bad offers and made bad offers. The following statements are a generalization, an opinion on my part, that does apply to everyone but I believe applies to most of us:

We all want to win.

So, in making or receiving trade offers, we typically want to "win" the exchange. We don't make it lopsided. We just load it so it is slightly in our favor, or counter existing offers that are slightly in the other manager's favor with one that is slightly in favor of ourselves. Even if we are trading to fill a position of need where our opponent has depth, we still want to tack a couple other players on to "win" the exchange.

There are plenty of exceptions - trades to free cap spaces, trades for favorite players, trades for guys who fit a park better. But even in something like a trade for cap space, you will try to give away the most expensive underperformer that you would have cut anyway to free up that space.

Many of us know which players perform best, so to acquire those players in trades, we have to offer up players with similar salaries who perform slightly worse. It's the nature of trading.

IMO, a lot of trading frustration would be alleviated if the "horribly lopsided" trade offers were stopped. That rating is in the eye of the beholder, but we know what they are in general:

- in 200M leagues, offering two marginal 7M players for a 11M stud and some mediocre back end bullpen guy.
- for the experience vets, offering an obvious underperformer to get an obvious overperformer for the same salary - hitting rookies up with sucker trades is a great way to drive away potential new players, and pisses off the vets who know better
- offering up a so-so player who we proclaim is a "great fit for your park" in exchange for a player who's great anywhere

We're all guilty of some of these at some point, and we've all seen plenty of these. If we stopped doing these type of offers ourselves, I think that trades would flow more freely, because every offer that pops up isn't immediately judged with skepticism.

My manifesto is complete. Back to staring at spreadsheets all day.

[Valen]

Major ditto to the last 2 posts. Nothing to say except I agree completely.

[nevdully's]

[quote:bdce77a7eb]Evaluation of a trade offer has to include context:

Is it before or after the season started?
What is the cap?
Rosters/needs of the two teams.
If it is preseason, what replacements can be gotten for the "crappy" players in the deal. [/quote:bdce77a7eb]




[quote:bdce77a7eb]Major ditto to the last 2 posts. Nothing to say except I agree completely. [/quote:bdce77a7eb]

I'm confused. What does the above post have to do with anything Valen has been saying?

Is it ok to post something similar to what's been discussed here, "once context is established" ?

[Valen]

I too am confused. When I read the first line in first post...
[quote:6a2d0ddaf3]Trade offers are out of control now[/quote:6a2d0ddaf3]
figured this was a thread about trading. MrBBW and Treyomo both posted thoughts about trading. Therefore I fail to see how either was out of context.
:roll:

Unfortunate an issue cannot be discussed and opinions expressed without personal attacks.

[nevdully's]

Personal attacks really?


I ask a simple question much the way MBBW always seems to do....Your whole point (If I understood you correctly) was sort of a live and let live as far as trades go...But then you totally agree with the whole "understand the context of the trade first" MBBW posted...So I'll ask again...If you preach live and let live what does "the context of a trade" have to do with that?

If I prove or get a general consensus of some trade then I can post, if not I can't?

[nevdully's]

btw this is twice now you say I'm flaming you and personal attacks....I said you assume a lot...and you do... is that a flaming attack...I ask about a seemingly contradictory point of view....and that's an attack....and you say I'm sensitive.

[Valen]

[quote:b049a040c0]
If I prove or get a general consensus of some trade then I can post, if not I can't?[/quote:b049a040c0]
you can post any time you want. Never implied you could not. I just disagreed with you. I happened to agree with MrBBW. My apologies if agreeing with someone is such a problem. :roll:

To remove any confusion as to what I believe...

I do not see the state of trade offers to be a problem. So perhaps no objection if one wants to describe me as a live and let live person. Best way to handle an offer you do not like is hit the decline button. Works every time for me.

I do believe that most if not all trades should be considered in context. I might consider a trade offer bad in one league/circumstances and decline while in a different league with different circumstances/context accept. Life does not happen in a vacuum.

For what it is worth on this I have had vets send me a trade offer in one league and then decline that same offer in reverse in another. Context or just someone trying to take advantage of a less experienced manager?

[Valen]

I would ask nev the same question I posed to salt earlier. Does posting what you consider bad trades on boards result in any fewer bad trade offers being made to you?

Whether I agree a trade is bad or not is irrelevant. What matters is the results and what you are or are not accomplishing.