Albert Pujols could be the greatest player ever

[nels52]

Hey btw people I (the author of this thread) never once said I think Pujols is the best ever. I titled the post "Pujols COULD be the greatest ever" and thats how I feel about it, he COULD. People have been projecting his carrer totals in this post saying stuff like "10% decline" rate and how he could end up with 4000 hits and 800 homers.

Thats crazy talk.

The man is already 31 and "only" has 450 homers. To say he's gonna his 300+ more is nuts. Oh yeah and 2000 more hits??? Give me a break.

The point of this thread was to point out how we're witnessing an immortal in the midst of one of his most defining/memorable moments. Trying to rank players who lived almost 100 years apart is kinda silly/impossible.

Besides, as great as I think Albert is, Ted Williams kinda just blows him out of the water when it comes to looking at JUST stats. I know you guys all know this but Ted missed 3 full season due to the war. His age in those years: 24-26.

These three years also interrupted a 6-season streak of leading the league in OPS. 6 season!!!!!

Who knows how many triple crowns he could have won....... :shock:

[PotKettleBlack]

I agree with the absurdity of comparing players from the first 150 years of baseball to everyone who played after 1937.

The pre-1900 players could call for high or low balls, and it was considered bad form to strike people out. Koufax would have been considered showy and a bad sportsman. And it was also considered meh to hit the ball out of the park. So, Mark Reynolds would not have lasted very long in the 1890s. K or HR... not long for the league.

It was a game of contact, speed, strategy, and a billion errors a game. I don't know how you can grade people then as great fielders since the fields were crap, the equipment was crap, the coaching was crap, and the talent disparity and undiscovered talent were both massive.

I like to think about deadball guys. I like to think about who would have translated, who wouldn't have. But I think comparing Billy Hamilton and Johnny Damon is vaguely absurd. Damon has every advantage over those guys, save the disparity in competition. He is undoubtedly faster and stronger. I like to think that Damon, given a shave and a haircut and transported to 1911 would have been a God. Cobb+. And transported to the modern era, he's an all-star in his prime. Contact, speed, glove. Damon.

[1787]

MAN HOW CAN IT BE ANYONE BUT THE BABE. HIS NUMBERS ARE SO MUCH SUPERIOR TO ALL OF HIS CONTEMPORARIES PLUS HE WAS A GREAT PITCHER. I UNDERSTAND THE TALENT POOL WAS SMALLER BUT BASEBALL WAS THE ONLY REAL MONEY TEAM SPORT OF THE TIME AND THE BEST ATHLETES PLAYED BASEBALL TODAY SO MANY OF THE GRAET ATHLETES PLAY OTHER SPORTS. ALSO IN THE BABES DAY ONLY 16 MAJOR LEAGUE TEAMS. NOT THE WATERED DOWN 30 WE HAVE TODAY . ALBERT IS A GREAT PLAYER BUT RUTH IS AND ALWAYS BE THE MEASURING STICK OF GREATNESS.
MY TOP 10
1.RUTH
2.MAYS
3.COBB
4.WILLIAMS
5.HORNSBY
6.MANTLE
7.DIMAGGIO
8.AARON
9.GHERIG
10.GRIFFEY JR

MAYBE ALBERT CRACKS THE TOP 10 WHEN HES FINISHED ALONG WITH AROD WHO ALSO HAS GREAT NUMBERS.

PS MR BONDS WOULD MAKE THE LIST ON NUMBERS ALONE BUT [NEED I SAY MORE]
BILL

[PotKettleBlack]

A top ten list with Junior Griffey disqualifies itself.

Career numbers do not come close to measuring against Musial. And Bonds. And at this point in his career, Arod or Pujols.

630 HR is a big deal. Career .284/.370 obp is not. 1 MVP is nice. 15th all time in K. 199 GIDP.
His comparable is Frank Robinson. Not bad for a HOFer. But top ten?

In career WAR (including fielding) Griffey Jr trails Pujols, ARod, And Chipper Jones among actives. Way behind Cobb, Speaker, Musial, Collins, Rickey, Ott, Schmidt, FRob, ARod, Lajoie and Morgan.

[geekor]

a top 10 list written is all caps won't even get read by me. Seriously, the interwebs aren't brand new. Who can type that much and not undo the caps lock.

[rburgh]

Aaron hit 357 homers after age 31. Who's to say Pujols can't do at least that well? He's much bigger and stronger than Aaron, and won't be spending the rest of his baseball life trying to hit in the late 60's and early 70's.

Ditto for the 2000 hits. Ordinary good players play into their 40's today, and Albert is miles above that. As I said in an earlier post, somebody, somewhere, will pay him good money in 2024 to hit .265-25-85 and play a little 1B. And he'll put enough fannies into the seats and turn enough cable tuners to the station to more than justify what they pay him.

I DON'T think he is one of the 10 greatest players ever, but I DO think he has as good a chance to get 4000 hits and 800 HR as anybody ever will. And if he does, a lot of people will look no further to rank him.

[The Last Druid]

Ain't just about strength. Hands and wrists. And Aaron moved from a park unfavorable to power hitters to a launching pad. Albert's stats are already beginning to trend down.

[The Last Druid]

Anybody think Ruth wouldn't have used roids -- or at least testosterone-- if they were available? He was the ultimate party animal. With his constant womanizing (multiple women per night were probably more the norm than the exception), binge drinking and lack of sleep, I imagine roids, or at least testosterone, would have been very tempting. And if he had played in the last twenty years...LMAO.

[PotKettleBlack]

A move to the north side of Chicago, [b:da32774fa4]which I think unlikely[/b:da32774fa4], would probably trend his numbers back up.
2011 @Wrigley - .435/.519/.609.
08-10 @Wrigley - .329/.480/.671

Granted, that is against Cubs pitching... but, you'd have to think the Friendly Confines would not confine a lot of balls he might hit.

I could see him moving to a more friendly ball park with a team that would afford him protection. Texas would be a great landing spot, if only they were not so right handed already. Would cause me to take an x-acto knife to a picture of him I keep by my desk to annoy the Cubs fans, but I couldn't fault him for wanting to get 800 HR 4000 hits, and out Musial Musial. (get the hits, the doubles, the average, the total bases, the HR, etc).

[The Last Druid]

Thought Williams missed five seasons due to war. No matter, he was just a two tool player, hitting and hitting with power. Okay, maybe three tools - he was certainly a tool as a person. Only a .328 lifetime batting average on the road, .361 at Fenway. Ruth and Bonds were not helped by their parks the way Ted was. Check their career batting splits. Still Ted was pretty awesome on those two dimensions, mediocore everywhere else. Not much of an arm, not much of a fielder and not great on the bases. And certainly not a great teammate, the guy would rather walk than swing at a bad pitch even with the game on the line. Mr. Selfish. The Bonds of his era with the press and teammates, 'cept that Barry was a five tool player. Much greater player than Ted and on performance it's him and Ruth as the best ever. Mays a distant third.

Roids were a sociocultural phenomena, a reflection of the times. If the monetary rewards were available, the old timers would have flocked like lemmings to their usage -- if it was in their perceived financial interest to do so.