Pujols to the Angels

[Mr Baseball World]

A bit easier to go out there for one inning roughly 70 times a season than play 150+ full games when you get to 36 and beyond though.

[macnole]

No argument there. But to be baseball's best at it...that says something. Power hitting first basemen aren't as rare as dominant closers.

On topic though, I think Pujols is a good guy. When I lived in the suburbs of St Louis, he was impressively involved in the community. Seemed genuine...I'm surprised he left though--what a great baseball city. And as you heard a fan or two, they say "thanks" to him and wish him well.

That says something about both fan and player.

[macnole]

[quote:372f809d9d="andycummings65"]Again, it's [b:372f809d9d]not [/b:372f809d9d]about the money. The money is a [b:372f809d9d]barometer [/b:372f809d9d]for a player, and Pujols looks and sees other players who are half the player he is get paid more than him. It is pride and prestige, not $$$ that ultimately runs these decisions.

If you work in an office for 10 years, and you are the best employee in your company, but some loser continually makes more than you do, you will begin to feel undervalued, then unappreciated, then cheated, and after 10 years of that, the next job offer from another company that offers what you think you are worth will land you..............And in [b:372f809d9d]your [/b:372f809d9d]mind it wont be about the money, it will be about your worth and value.[/quote:372f809d9d]

True.

[ozziesmith]

Pretty similar to comments in this thread:

* Jon Paul Morosi, FoxSports.com: "Cardinals fans feel heartsick right now. Yes, a unique opportunity in baseball history - the chance for Pujols to succeed Stan Musial as the Cardinals' franchise icon - has been lost forever...but give them time. They will come around. This is excellent news for the Cardinals' long-term, on-field health. Don't get me wrong: Pujols is probably the game's best hitter. The Cardinals, in the near term, would have been better with him than without him. But objectively speaking, a 10-year contract for Pujols in the National League would have been a catastrophe."

Tyler Kepner, New York Times: "The St. Louis Cardinals offered the fairy tale. It was going to cost more than $200 million, but they were willing togive it to Albert Pujols. If he wanted to stay in the heartland, with the championships and the love and the unbroken legacy, he could have. Pujols has seen how the Cardinals treat their legends. They come back in October, wearing red sports coats and soaking in the adulation. They did not all start in St. Louis, as Pujols did, but they all finished there: Red Schoendienst and Stan Musial, Bob Gibson and Lou Brock, Ozzie Smith and Mark McGwire. Not Pujols. The second half of his breathtaking career will unfold elsewhere."

* Keith Law, ESPN: "It's a Pyrrhic victory for the Angels because it's almost unthinkable that this contract will look like a good one in 2021 when we look back on it after its conclusion. Offering Pujols -- or any player past the age of 30 -- a 10 years is just not rational; there's no way we can accurately project a player who will spend more or less the entire decade of his contract in his decline phase. Even if we assume Pujols' listed age is accurate, a 10-year deal takes him to an age when most hitters are shadows of their former selves.

"Per Fangraphs, Pujols was worth just over eight wins above replacement every year from 2003 to 2009, but he hasn't reached that level the last two seasons due to some injuries and very slight signs that he's getting slower, probably the first indications that he's starting his decline. He'll still be very valuable the next two or three seasons, if healthy, but by the midpoint of this deal, he'll probably be overpaid relative to his production, and the last few years of it will be ugly, as they would be for any player signed to a deal this long that takes him past the age of 40."

* Richard Justice, MLB.com: "The Cardinals attempted to re-sign Albert Pujols. Boy did they try. But the thing they didn't do is every bit as difficult as the thing they did. It's the thing good organizations do, and it's sometimes incredibly difficult. The Cardinals had to assign a value to Pujols, and that's not easy in a business in which emotion frequently frames decisions. To ignore the noise of fans, talk-show hosts, etc., requires discipline many organizations don't have. In the wake of Pujols agreeing to a 10-year deal with the Angels worth between $250 million and $260 million, there'll be a storm of second-guessing about how the Cardinals handled the negotiations. In the end, though, the Cardinals would not give him a blank contract ...based on 2011, they're just not certain how many great years he has left. So they drew a line. From the beginning, they said they could afford a $110-million payroll. They may have moved on that a bit in the hopes of trading some pitching later, but they were unwilling to go for 10 years and $250 million.

"The Cardinals won before he got there, and they've got a great shot to win after him. It'll take some time to grasp a post-Albert era in St. Louis, but the Cardinals knew there was this chance when this process started. They're as prepared as any team could be for how it played out. Great organizations endure, and they're still one of the best."

* Joel Sherman, New York Post: "The Cardinals' Derek Jeter left to become the Alex Rodriguez of Southern California. Good luck with that, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Albert Pujols was so Jeter-esque in St. Louis the Cardinals not only offered 10 years at more than $200 million, they had their greatest living player, Stan Musial, call to try to appeal to him to do what The Man had: Play his whole career in that baseball-mad city. Instead, Pujols shunned legacy, loyalty and familiarity to sign a 10-year, $254 million contract with the Angels, transforming from St. Louis' favorite son to an Arch-villain. His uniform color will remain red, but this decision was about green.

"The dubious business decision here was made by the franchise giving Pujols the money. The Angels are gambling the second-largest contract in history that Pujols will remain as good a player for the next 10 years as he was for the past 11. And if you would like to see just what a risk that is, let's examine the largest contract in history: The 10-year, $275 million deal for A-Rod that even the Yankees executives who gave it to him now concede was a mistake."

* Dave Cameron, FanGraphs.com: "At $250 million over 10 years, the Angels are essentially paying for something close to 40 wins over the life of the deal. In order to believe Pujols will produce at that level, you need to see Pujols as something close to a +6.7 win player now and will age fairly well, which is possible but is not the most likely outcome in this scenario. You also need to believe that he's not lying about his age - if he is, there's almost no chance this deal works for Anaheim. And, of course, you need him to stay healthy, which bigger guys often can't do in their thirties. The Angels have absorbed a massive amount of risk by guaranteeing Pujols this much money for so long, and while the potential for him to earn it is there, it's not clear that this is the best path they could have taken."

* Anthony Castrovince, MLB.com: "You can bet on the Cards one day counting their blessings that this albatross of a contract is not on their hands. That day won't come in 2012, especially given the news of Allen Craig's knee surgery. That's a blow to the backup plan. But it will come one day, perhaps sooner than we suspect. Pujols just crushed the heart of a team and a town. He joins the trail of traitors. But he had hundreds of millions of reasons to leave, and the Cards had just as many reasons to let him walk."

* John Harper, New York Daily News: "A 10-year contract for the soon-to-be 32-year-old Pujols is likely to haunt the Angels well before it has run its course, especially if he is actually older than he says, as many in baseball suspect."

* Jonah Keri, Grantland.com: "The same word of caution that applies to the Angels should foster some optimism in St. Louis. The Cardinals just won the World Series. They did it without staff ace Adam Wainwright. They did it with old retreads Ryan Franklin and Miguel Batista anchoring the back end of the bullpen early in the year. They did it with Pujols playing worse than he ever had before. With playoff hero Allen Craig likely to crash the lineup (and Lance Berkman moving to first base), this should still be a strong offense. The Cards also suddenly have a big chunk of disposable income, which they could use to do anything from pursue Prince Fielder (the last elite free agent on the market), go after Jimmy Rollins to play short, or trade some of their pitching depth for a big-ticket player whose salary might be weighing on his current team. Just as you can't plan a parade just yet in Anaheim, you shouldn't discount a potential repeat run for the Cardinals. One player can certainly nudge a team toward a championship. But he can't guarantee it. Not even close."

* Jeff Passan, YahooSports!.com: "While the genesis of the Angels' binge will reveal itself in the coming days, what struck most was (owner Arte) Moreno's forceful renunciation of his abhorrence for high-dollar, long-term deals - or, as one official put it, 'He's such a hypocrite.' Rarely does hypocrisy cost so much. In dollars for Moreno. In reputation for Pujols. In tears for St. Louis. Pujols said, and repeated, that he wanted to be a 'Cardinal for life.' The price of his word, it seems, is about $35 million - the difference between what the Cardinals offered and the Angels paid. Nor were the Cardinals close, unwilling to compromise their payroll and profits for Pujols...on the other hand, this may be the day that saved the Cardinals, the one on which they avoided the sort of albatross - or, as it shall be called, the Albertross - that can hamper a franchise for years. Sort of like A-Rod's current deal, which he signed at age 32. Before Rodriguez signed this contract, he averaged 154 games per season and hit .306/.389/.578. His numbers have dipped significantly since, and he has played an average of 30 fewer games over the first four years. The deal is a disaster."


Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-bytes-matheny-and-life-after-pujols/article_889da330-227e-11e1-9973-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1g4qPsC4E

[Valen]

[quote:42cd28bac7]Concerning decline at 36 years old...let's just remember Mariano...don't even need to say his last name.[/quote:42cd28bac7]
I been predicting he would slip over the hill so long now even I am tired of hearing it. It is true he is a closer and maybe that makes it easier but the line between success and failure is so slim for a closer it amazes me how good he still is.

World Series featured a couple over 40 relievers as well. Rangers are talking about bringing Vizquel back as a utility infielder.

I would not be surprised to see Albert remain productive in to early 40s.

Another thing nobody has mentioned is the extra boost he will give Angels as he chases down milestones. He will pass 500 HRs in second year of this deal. Likely pass 600 in year 5. Maybe earlier with all those road games in Texas (Arlington and Houston). He will probably be slowing down in last 2 or 3 years but he will also likely be staring down Ruth, Arod, and Bonds. That will provide ample marketing opportunities to easily cover his salary even if he is fading.

[Valen]

I am no longer an Arod fan. But frankly to say it has already been a disaster is plain stupid and reveals a serious bias. He helped contribute to a championship and neither his contract nor his performance has kept the yankees from making the playoffs this past year.

No doubt there will be many jealous writers green with envy who will paint Pujols as a greedy little whatever but knowledgeable baseball people will see that for what it is. I guarantee those who play in the angels division are taking notice and are concerned.

I truly believe the Angels made the right decision based on their situation.
I also believe the Cardinals and those teams who decided not to take a run at him also made the right decision based on their situations. Billy Beane once said one of the keys to long term success is knowing when to back off spending and when to go all in. Some teams give the big deal to a player when they are several players away from being good so they are still only average when the dust settles. Other teams truly are only a piece or two away from being able to make a serious playoff run. Angels are closer to fitting the latter than the former.

[qksilver69]

[quote:29b0db80db="andycummings65"]If you work in an office for 10 years, and you are the best employee in your company, but some loser continually makes more than you do, you will begin to feel undervalued, then unappreciated, then cheated, and after 10 years of that, the next job offer from another company that offers what you think you are worth will land you..............And in [b:29b0db80db]your [/b:29b0db80db]mind it wont be about the money, it will be about your worth and value.[/quote:29b0db80db]

I worked in HR for 16+ years and agree with this 100%, have seen it happen time & time again. The people who are the best at what they do get to that point at a huge cost in most cases - extreme dedication to their craft. Pride and some degree of ego (in the positive sense) are necessities to get to the top. And if your employer takes advantage of your loyalty, as the Cardinals so clearly did early in Albert's career, the disconnect between your worth and how the organization values you will eventually come to a head, as it did here.

As others have said, I think both sides did what they thought was right for them, and this was a good outcome for both STL and Pujols. Time will tell whether it was good for the Angels, but I like the bet. Hope he is still playing well when we eventually get a new A's stadium here in San Jose...

[chasenally]

St. Louis I no nothing about. Anaheim lets see. Magic Mountain, Disneyland, Knottsberry Farm, Beaches, Sand, Warm, Sun, almost always around 80 degrees, great Private schools and that is just for the kids. ENDORSMENTS in a major market will make daddy even more. This move is a no brainer for him. New York would be the move to make more sense but why go there when they grade you on every game instead of where you get graded on your season and your kids need to be flown to Miami to get what you get in California.
He is done and he will be very happy to end his career with the Angels. Sometimes it isn't about the money just where you want to finish your career. The older you get the less you want to bust your rearend to make the man happy and just come home kiss your wife and play with the kids.

[macnole]

St Louis is a great city. Whether the Cards or the Symphony or "The Hill"--the safer version of Little Italy...it's nice. And the public schools are great. No need to avoid them, like California where English is probably a second language?

[george barnard]

[quote:e9420142dc]No need to avoid them, like California where English is probably a second language? [/quote:e9420142dc]

Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Is this some kind of code? How does language correlate with quality of education? Maybe Americans should learn a second (or a first) language in any event.

Of course it's easy in St. Louis not to have to teach in Spanish when the population is only 2.3% Hispanic. [url]http://www.stlrcga.org/x1832.xml[/url]

And this was such a nice thread.