ATG new cards batch #4 drops Thu., 12/15
by FRANKMANSUETO » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:03 pm
Why can't I see the Tony Oliva, Rico Carty and Joe Kelley cards. Anyone have an answer? :?
- FRANKMANSUETO
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by Salty » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:07 pm
[quote:9fe265f112="rburgh"]I disagree strongly, PKB. There is one argument you can make about the Federal League players that simply is not valid for Negro league players.
Federal league players played against a diluted talent pool, with many of the players demonstrably not up to the caliber of major league replacement level players of the day. Many of them later rejoined, or previously had played in, the major leagues. Few or none of those players matched their Federal League performance.
This argument is simply not true for the Negro leaguers. Those invited to join the major leagues after 1946, for the most part, became stars. The Negro league pool, although possibly not the equal of the major league talent pool of the day, cannot be demonstrably shown to be so. The Negro leaguers and major leaguers frequently competed on an equal footing in Cuba in the winter, and the Negro leaguers, if anything, got the better of their white peers.[/quote:9fe265f112]
Would this be a case of the Pot Calling the Kettle White? :wink:
PS- am in agreement with you on this, the NeL players were on a generally similar level of play as the major leaguers as is born out by the number of star players who were also stars in the majors.
Federal league players played against a diluted talent pool, with many of the players demonstrably not up to the caliber of major league replacement level players of the day. Many of them later rejoined, or previously had played in, the major leagues. Few or none of those players matched their Federal League performance.
This argument is simply not true for the Negro leaguers. Those invited to join the major leagues after 1946, for the most part, became stars. The Negro league pool, although possibly not the equal of the major league talent pool of the day, cannot be demonstrably shown to be so. The Negro leaguers and major leaguers frequently competed on an equal footing in Cuba in the winter, and the Negro leaguers, if anything, got the better of their white peers.[/quote:9fe265f112]
Would this be a case of the Pot Calling the Kettle White? :wink:
PS- am in agreement with you on this, the NeL players were on a generally similar level of play as the major leaguers as is born out by the number of star players who were also stars in the majors.
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by The Last Druid » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:47 pm
Because Bernie doesn't like you. I don't think he likes Firefox either.
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by JOSEPHKENDALL » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:36 pm
Some would like to have the extra players and others wouldn't. I wonder how hard it would be for Bernie to make the extra cards, such as from the Federal League, an option when selecting the ATG set. You could then set up the league with or without them.
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by ADRIANGABRIEL » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:45 pm
I think customizable player sets would be a good thing.
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Nothing wrong with the current Hendrix: No hitter tonight
by The Last Druid » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:06 am
Claude Hendrix (TBT) no-hits Lights
Fit To Be Tied 3, Northern Lights 0
Game 90
To Be Tied...... 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 3 8 0
Lights.......... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 2
Win:Hendrix(10-4) Loss:Hunter(6-8)
Homeruns- H.Duffy(9th), K.Griffey Jr.(30th)
Northern fans certainly got their money's worth at Sportsman's Pk NL '41.
Claude Hendrix(10-4) pitched a rare no-hitter as the Fit To Be Tied toppled
the Northern Lights 3 to 0.
Hendrix was obviously at the top of his game as he set the Northern batters
down like so many dominoes. He walked 5 Northern batters. The tension
started to build around the 6th inning. By the 9th inning the crowd was
electrified. Neither team managed to score after the 1st inning.
Jim Hunter(6-8) ended up with the loss. He surrendered 6 hits and 1 walk in 8
innings. It took a while to pry Hendrix way from his teammates as they all
wanted to show their appreciation and joy. Finally, however, Zegna got to
offer his own congratulations with a big bear hug and the comment, 'That was
one of the best pitched games I have seen in all my years in baseball -
Hendrix was masterful out there this afternoon!'
To Be Tied AB R H RBI AVG Lights AB R H RBI AVG
C.Jamieson LF 4 0 1 0 .317 B.Delancey C 3 0 0 0 .245
N.Fox 2B 3 0 0 0 .330 P.Rose RF 3 0 0 0 .302
G.Brett 3B 4 1 0 0 .310 W.McCovey 1B 4 0 0 0 .222
H.Duffy CF 4 1 1 2 .422 C.Yastrzemski LF 2 0 0 0 .296
K.Griffey Jr. RF 3 1 1 1 .277 R.Ventura 3B 2 0 0 0 .249
W.Aikens 1B 4 0 2 0 .250 R.Schoendienst 2B 3 0 0 0 .230
G.Templeton SS 4 0 1 0 .265 T.Fernandez SS 3 0 0 0 .232
R.Gedman C 4 0 2 0 .324 J.Benjamin CF 2 0 0 0 .213
C.Hendrix P 4 0 0 0 .171 J.Hunter P 1 0 0 0 .137
A-G.Woodling PH 1 0 0 0 .200
R.Reuschel P 0 0 0 01.000
-- -- -- --- -- -- -- ---
Totals 34 3 8 3 Totals 24 0 0 0
A-Pinch Hit For Hunter In 8th Inning
To Be Tied...... 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 3 8 0
Lights.......... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 2
To Be Tied IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
C.Hendrix WIN(10-4) 9 0 0 0 5 4 0 129 4.61
Totals 9 0 0 0 5 4 0
Lights IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
J.Hunter LOSS(6-8) 8 6 3 3 1 3 2 122 3.22
R.Reuschel 1 2 0 0 0 1 0 21 4.02
Totals 9 8 3 3 1 4 2
ATTENDANCE- 24,205
T- 2:19
LEFT ON BASE- To Be Tied: 6 Lights: 3
DOUBLE PLAYS- To Be Tied: 2 Lights: 1
ERRORS- B.Delancey, W.McCovey
DOUBLES- C.Jamieson(8th)
HOME RUNS- H.Duffy(9th), K.Griffey Jr.(30th)
STOLEN BASES- K.Griffey Jr.(4th)
SACRIFICE HITS- J.Hunter
WALKS- K.Griffey Jr., B.Delancey, P.Rose, C.Yastrzemski, R.Ventura, J.Benjamin
HIT BY PITCH- N.Fox
STRIKE OUTS- N.Fox, H.Duffy, G.Templeton, C.Hendrix, W.McCovey-2,
R.Schoendienst, J.Hunter
GIDP- C.Hendrix, P.Rose, W.McCovey
*** TOP OF INNING 1 ***
0 C.Jamieson 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 N.Fox 1-9 HBP b-1 F9
1 1 G.Brett 4-7 Force Play (2B) 1-o b-1 F9
2 1 H.Duffy 4-2 Home Run (LF) 1-H b-H bpHR 1-6 F9
2 K.Griffey Jr. 5-10 Home Run (RF) b-H bpHR 1-20 F9
2 W.Aikens 1-10 Fly Out (CF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 1 ***
0 B.Delancey 6-2 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 P.Rose 4-6 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 W.McCovey 5-7 Ground Out (2B) Double Play 1-o b-0 gb(2B)x F9
*** TOP OF INNING 2 ***
0 G.Templeton 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 R.Gedman 2-10 Single (RF) b-1 F9
1 1 C.Hendrix 2-3 Ground Out (1B) Double Play 1-o b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 2 ***
0 C.Yastrzemski 6-6 Line Out (3B) b-0 F9
1 R.Ventura 4-11 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9
2 R.Schoendienst 5-9 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 3 ***
0 C.Jamieson 4-3 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9
1 N.Fox 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 G.Brett 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 3 ***
0 T.Fernandez 2-6 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 J.Benjamin 2-12 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 J.Hunter Sac Bunt (P) 1-2 b-0 F9
2 2 B.Delancey 5-6 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 4 ***
0 H.Duffy 6-2 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 K.Griffey Jr. 1-7 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 W.Aikens 2-4 Fly Out (RF) b-0 bpSI 1-8 F9
2 1 SB & Error - C 1-3 F9
2 3 G.Templeton 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 4 ***
0 P.Rose 2-9 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
1 W.McCovey 5-8 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
2 C.Yastrzemski 5-4 Foul Out (C) b-0 catch-x F9
*** TOP OF INNING 5 ***
0 R.Gedman 4-5 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 C.Hendrix 1-5 Ground Out (SS) b-0 F9
2 C.Jamieson 1-8 Double (CF) b-2 F9
2 2 N.Fox 3-9 Ground Out (SS) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 5 ***
0 R.Ventura 2-7 Walk b-1 F9
0 1 R.Schoendienst 4-8 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 1 T.Fernandez 2-11 Pop Out (2B) b-0 F9
2 1 J.Benjamin 6-8 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 6 ***
0 G.Brett 4-7 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 H.Duffy 2-9 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
2 K.Griffey Jr. 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 6 ***
0 J.Hunter 5-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 B.Delancey 3-9 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 P.Rose 2-9 Ground Out (3B) Double Play 1-o b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 7 ***
0 W.Aikens 2-6 Single (RF) b-1 F9
0 1 G.Templeton 4-9 Single (SS) 1-2 b-1 gb(SS)x F9
0 12 R.Gedman 3-8 Pop Out (SS) b-0 F9
1 12 C.Hendrix 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 12 C.Jamieson 4-10 Ground Out (SS) b-0 gb(SS)x F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 7 ***
0 W.McCovey 2-9 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 C.Yastrzemski 3-7 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 R.Ventura 3-7 Fly Out (CF) b-0 F9
2 1 R.Schoendienst 1-4 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 8 ***
0 N.Fox 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 G.Brett 6-11 Ground Out (1B) b-0 gb(1B)x F9
2 H.Duffy 5-9 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 8 ***
0 T.Fernandez 6-3 Ground Out (P) b-0 bpSI 1-8 F9
1 J.Benjamin 2-8 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
SUBSTITUTE PH- Gene Woodling
2 G.Woodling 2-10 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 9 ***
SUBSTITUTE P - Rick Reuschel (role: LH Specialist)
0 K.Griffey Jr. 1-3 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
1 W.Aikens 4-7 Single (RF) b-1 F9
1 1 G.Templeton 3-7 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 1 R.Gedman 5-3 Single & Error - 1B 1-3 b-2 gb(1B)x F9
2 23 C.Hendrix 3-5 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 9 ***
0 B.Delancey 5-4 Pop Out (C) b-0 catch-x F9
1 P.Rose 5-6 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
2 W.McCovey 2-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
Fit To Be Tied 3, Northern Lights 0
Game 90
To Be Tied...... 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 3 8 0
Lights.......... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 2
Win:Hendrix(10-4) Loss:Hunter(6-8)
Homeruns- H.Duffy(9th), K.Griffey Jr.(30th)
Northern fans certainly got their money's worth at Sportsman's Pk NL '41.
Claude Hendrix(10-4) pitched a rare no-hitter as the Fit To Be Tied toppled
the Northern Lights 3 to 0.
Hendrix was obviously at the top of his game as he set the Northern batters
down like so many dominoes. He walked 5 Northern batters. The tension
started to build around the 6th inning. By the 9th inning the crowd was
electrified. Neither team managed to score after the 1st inning.
Jim Hunter(6-8) ended up with the loss. He surrendered 6 hits and 1 walk in 8
innings. It took a while to pry Hendrix way from his teammates as they all
wanted to show their appreciation and joy. Finally, however, Zegna got to
offer his own congratulations with a big bear hug and the comment, 'That was
one of the best pitched games I have seen in all my years in baseball -
Hendrix was masterful out there this afternoon!'
To Be Tied AB R H RBI AVG Lights AB R H RBI AVG
C.Jamieson LF 4 0 1 0 .317 B.Delancey C 3 0 0 0 .245
N.Fox 2B 3 0 0 0 .330 P.Rose RF 3 0 0 0 .302
G.Brett 3B 4 1 0 0 .310 W.McCovey 1B 4 0 0 0 .222
H.Duffy CF 4 1 1 2 .422 C.Yastrzemski LF 2 0 0 0 .296
K.Griffey Jr. RF 3 1 1 1 .277 R.Ventura 3B 2 0 0 0 .249
W.Aikens 1B 4 0 2 0 .250 R.Schoendienst 2B 3 0 0 0 .230
G.Templeton SS 4 0 1 0 .265 T.Fernandez SS 3 0 0 0 .232
R.Gedman C 4 0 2 0 .324 J.Benjamin CF 2 0 0 0 .213
C.Hendrix P 4 0 0 0 .171 J.Hunter P 1 0 0 0 .137
A-G.Woodling PH 1 0 0 0 .200
R.Reuschel P 0 0 0 01.000
-- -- -- --- -- -- -- ---
Totals 34 3 8 3 Totals 24 0 0 0
A-Pinch Hit For Hunter In 8th Inning
To Be Tied...... 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 3 8 0
Lights.......... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 2
To Be Tied IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
C.Hendrix WIN(10-4) 9 0 0 0 5 4 0 129 4.61
Totals 9 0 0 0 5 4 0
Lights IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
J.Hunter LOSS(6-8) 8 6 3 3 1 3 2 122 3.22
R.Reuschel 1 2 0 0 0 1 0 21 4.02
Totals 9 8 3 3 1 4 2
ATTENDANCE- 24,205
T- 2:19
LEFT ON BASE- To Be Tied: 6 Lights: 3
DOUBLE PLAYS- To Be Tied: 2 Lights: 1
ERRORS- B.Delancey, W.McCovey
DOUBLES- C.Jamieson(8th)
HOME RUNS- H.Duffy(9th), K.Griffey Jr.(30th)
STOLEN BASES- K.Griffey Jr.(4th)
SACRIFICE HITS- J.Hunter
WALKS- K.Griffey Jr., B.Delancey, P.Rose, C.Yastrzemski, R.Ventura, J.Benjamin
HIT BY PITCH- N.Fox
STRIKE OUTS- N.Fox, H.Duffy, G.Templeton, C.Hendrix, W.McCovey-2,
R.Schoendienst, J.Hunter
GIDP- C.Hendrix, P.Rose, W.McCovey
*** TOP OF INNING 1 ***
0 C.Jamieson 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 N.Fox 1-9 HBP b-1 F9
1 1 G.Brett 4-7 Force Play (2B) 1-o b-1 F9
2 1 H.Duffy 4-2 Home Run (LF) 1-H b-H bpHR 1-6 F9
2 K.Griffey Jr. 5-10 Home Run (RF) b-H bpHR 1-20 F9
2 W.Aikens 1-10 Fly Out (CF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 1 ***
0 B.Delancey 6-2 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 P.Rose 4-6 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 W.McCovey 5-7 Ground Out (2B) Double Play 1-o b-0 gb(2B)x F9
*** TOP OF INNING 2 ***
0 G.Templeton 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 R.Gedman 2-10 Single (RF) b-1 F9
1 1 C.Hendrix 2-3 Ground Out (1B) Double Play 1-o b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 2 ***
0 C.Yastrzemski 6-6 Line Out (3B) b-0 F9
1 R.Ventura 4-11 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9
2 R.Schoendienst 5-9 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 3 ***
0 C.Jamieson 4-3 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9
1 N.Fox 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 G.Brett 4-6 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 3 ***
0 T.Fernandez 2-6 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 J.Benjamin 2-12 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 J.Hunter Sac Bunt (P) 1-2 b-0 F9
2 2 B.Delancey 5-6 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 4 ***
0 H.Duffy 6-2 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 K.Griffey Jr. 1-7 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 W.Aikens 2-4 Fly Out (RF) b-0 bpSI 1-8 F9
2 1 SB & Error - C 1-3 F9
2 3 G.Templeton 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 4 ***
0 P.Rose 2-9 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
1 W.McCovey 5-8 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
2 C.Yastrzemski 5-4 Foul Out (C) b-0 catch-x F9
*** TOP OF INNING 5 ***
0 R.Gedman 4-5 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 C.Hendrix 1-5 Ground Out (SS) b-0 F9
2 C.Jamieson 1-8 Double (CF) b-2 F9
2 2 N.Fox 3-9 Ground Out (SS) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 5 ***
0 R.Ventura 2-7 Walk b-1 F9
0 1 R.Schoendienst 4-8 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 1 T.Fernandez 2-11 Pop Out (2B) b-0 F9
2 1 J.Benjamin 6-8 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 6 ***
0 G.Brett 4-7 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 H.Duffy 2-9 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
2 K.Griffey Jr. 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 6 ***
0 J.Hunter 5-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 B.Delancey 3-9 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 P.Rose 2-9 Ground Out (3B) Double Play 1-o b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 7 ***
0 W.Aikens 2-6 Single (RF) b-1 F9
0 1 G.Templeton 4-9 Single (SS) 1-2 b-1 gb(SS)x F9
0 12 R.Gedman 3-8 Pop Out (SS) b-0 F9
1 12 C.Hendrix 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 12 C.Jamieson 4-10 Ground Out (SS) b-0 gb(SS)x F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 7 ***
0 W.McCovey 2-9 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 C.Yastrzemski 3-7 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 R.Ventura 3-7 Fly Out (CF) b-0 F9
2 1 R.Schoendienst 1-4 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 8 ***
0 N.Fox 5-7 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
1 G.Brett 6-11 Ground Out (1B) b-0 gb(1B)x F9
2 H.Duffy 5-9 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 8 ***
0 T.Fernandez 6-3 Ground Out (P) b-0 bpSI 1-8 F9
1 J.Benjamin 2-8 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
SUBSTITUTE PH- Gene Woodling
2 G.Woodling 2-10 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
*** TOP OF INNING 9 ***
SUBSTITUTE P - Rick Reuschel (role: LH Specialist)
0 K.Griffey Jr. 1-3 Ground Out (1B) b-0 F9
1 W.Aikens 4-7 Single (RF) b-1 F9
1 1 G.Templeton 3-7 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 1 R.Gedman 5-3 Single & Error - 1B 1-3 b-2 gb(1B)x F9
2 23 C.Hendrix 3-5 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
*** BOTTOM OF INNING 9 ***
0 B.Delancey 5-4 Pop Out (C) b-0 catch-x F9
1 P.Rose 5-6 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
2 W.McCovey 2-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
- The Last Druid
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by andycummings65 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:23 am
[quote:4b84fd30c2]Why can't I see the Tony Oliva, Rico Carty and Joe Kelley cards. Anyone have an answer? [/quote:4b84fd30c2]
"Use the Force, Frank"
-Obi-Strat-bernieobi
"Use the Force, Frank"
-Obi-Strat-bernieobi
- andycummings65
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by FRANKMANSUETO » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:39 am
Gave myself electric shock treatment to see the STARS! :shock: :lol:
- FRANKMANSUETO
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by PotKettleBlack » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:54 am
Based on the comments about the watered down talent pool of the federal league and other defunct leagues, I also suggest the removal of any card from 1943-1946 due to dilution of MLB talent due to WW2.
This is an absurdist argument to get people to think more broadly.
This is an absurdist argument to get people to think more broadly.
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by FRANKMANSUETO » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:07 pm
[size=18:9a20bad1c4]Let them PLAY![/size:9a20bad1c4] 8-)
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
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