Ironman catchers in live draft leagues -- BAD NEWS!

[kab105]

[quote:e830c3a80f="alvarndc"]
This dropping business is clearly unethical and wrong. common sense would dictate that it is merely gaming the system. Honestly, can anyone with a straight face say it makes sense that you can platoon Hornsby or Mays w himself?.[/quote:e830c3a80f]

I agree alvarndc, well said. I do not believe this is the way this game was intended to be played or should be played.
As far as the problem with the 2 catcher rule is concerned: What part of the following sentence is so hard to understand?

"- At least two of those hitters must be eligible to play catcher."

Like it or not, it could not be any more clear. Any game played with an illegal roster should result in a loss.

[Salty]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Gentlemen:

I am having a hard time fathoming how people who haven't played in ANY live leagues are making sweeping judgements about a twist in the game.

In this case EVERYONE is playing under the same rules or restrictions-
while in the other something is being done to circumvent the system;

In any case I cant possibly see how its a matter of 'ethics'.
...and reality?
We have freakin Gates Brown's 100 plate appearences playing in full seasons!

OMFG when will the aliens rescue us from ourselves?????????????????????????????????????????

[dharmabums]

[quote:cf07692215="kab105"]
As far as the problem with the 2 catcher rule is concerned: What part of the following sentence is so hard to understand?

"- At least two of those hitters must be eligible to play catcher."

Like it or not, it could not be any more clear. Any game played with an illegal roster should result in a loss.[/quote:cf07692215]

Agreed. And this is the key difference between this explicitly illegal situation and the red-herring argument about swapping Raja and Koufax.

[nevdully's]

The question of swapping players wasn't really about ethics, maybe realism..it was brought up by Bernie who was willing to "change" this from day one...but the majority that weighed in, either wanted it in or didn't care one way or another so Bernie left it in....you don't like it don't play it.

[bkeat23]

Salt,

I'm in my first live league, and am trying to put together a second, so I'm seeing this for the first time. Even though it seems it's an acceptable practice to swap out injured players cards among the managers that play a lot of live leagues, it's still new tactics to the newbies.

Is it also acceptable to swap out players off the wire based on matchups? Not a one year of Hornsby for the other, but for example, picking up hard lefties when headed into a series against a LH heavy team? Please don't take this as a snarky question, I'd really like some opinions on this.

I'm not talking about dropping players that aren't performing, more like picking up a guy and dropping him 2 days later, and then doing it again.

It is certainly within the rules, I'm not debating that at all.

Do the live draft league vets notice that there isn't too much new blood in the live drafts? If so, I submit these legal and accepted practices might be keeping the new guys from too many live draft leagues. I may have already put together my last live draft team.

Yeah, I know some of you are thinking "Good Riddance" :lol:

[Salty]

BK-

1) yes- you can swap waiver wire guys whenever you want-
thats one of the advantages of live for those who like to do it.

Its also been requested that we have Live with salary caps which would essentially prevent the swapping of both cards and waiver guys regularly.

2) No question Live needs new blood.
No question Strat in general on-line and board game
needs new blood.

3) There is a learning curve in live just like regular leagues.
My first few ATG leagues I think I lost 100 games partly because I had no idea how much the L/R balance in pitchers mattered vs. Stadiums
i mean its not Like the board game- yeah?

4) Its only good riddance if you beat me- oh wait a minute, guess there wouldnt be anyone left in that case :shock:
Ive lost to the best and the worse.

[nevdully's]

We're creatures of habit and many simply wary of trying something new, whether a new cap, theme leagues, restricted pools, stadiums or even players.

I see certain "assumed handicaps" that any newbie faces...yet I've seen inexperience lead to some ahh outside the box thinking and success...one guy here (chuckwonup) routinely wins using a 4 at ss...now he doesn't play much so a vets assumption (like mine) is this poor newbie doesn't know any better...As a matter a fact I was going to volunteer some unsolicited sage vet advice to chuckwonup but then noticed he had a better record in this league than me lmao...then checked his overall record and it was Solid..

I'm often puzzled by the reluctance to try, to learn, we're sorta just content to know what we know... "No Vet" knew some of these things could be done until......they tried them...Just Play....If ur gonna stick with this hobby, learn and experiment, you won't be "new" for long.

[djmacb]

I've played in my share of Live leagues so I guess I'm entitled to post here. Agreed, the swapping out of seasons is not an ethical issue since the powers that be, i.e. the Live Draft Mafia, have decreed that its not, however it is a [size=24:824e71723d][/size:824e71723d]STUPID[size=12:824e71723d][/size:824e71723d] rule. If I can swap out an injured Mantle for another season, then why can't I use Pedro in every series by swapping between his * and non-* seasons? Why can't I use Ruth as a pitcher and LF at the same time? What's the difference? I know the answer "Because that's the way it is." I think some of us are saying it should be different.

I don't see these as black and white issues, but as shades of gray. Using only one catcher is just a bit darker since it is specified you can't do this in the rules. BTW, there is nothing in the rules against dropping a $10M player either, but that will certainly generate a stream of abuse.

[Stormcrow2012]

[quote:3904352271]I'm in my first live league, and am trying to put together a second, so I'm seeing this for the first time. Even though it seems it's an acceptable practice to swap out injured players cards among the managers that play a lot of live leagues, it's still new tactics to the newbies.

Is it also acceptable to swap out players off the wire based on matchups? Not a one year of Hornsby for the other, but for example, picking up hard lefties when headed into a series against a LH heavy team? Please don't take this as a snarky question, I'd really like some opinions on this.

I'm not talking about dropping players that aren't performing, more like picking up a guy and dropping him 2 days later, and then doing it again.

It is certainly within the rules, I'm not debating that at all.

Do the live draft league vets notice that there isn't too much new blood in the live drafts? If so, I submit these legal and accepted practices might be keeping the new guys from too many live draft leagues. I may have already put together my last live draft team. [/quote:3904352271]


I don't see anything wrong with picking up guys for a series and then dropping them. The question is; should it be legal to drop an injured player for another card of the same guy? And I agree with the above post that until that is decided upon I would be hesitant to join a live draft league. I do not care one way or the other what Bernie or the group decide but everyone should be on the same page and playing by the same rules! I would not want to join a live draft league and abide by all the etiquette of not swapping hurt player cards for another card of the same player only to have my opponent do this. As far as I am concerned until everyone is on the same page about this gray area that is a big problem.

One point on realism; if it is realism you want ATG6 is not going to be for you anyway. Babe Ruth and Josh Gibson vs. Greg Maddux never happened. So you have decide how much realism you want. I think the rules are pretty good and pretty fair save for the one or two gray areas. At least the part about two catchers is CLEARLY in the rules.

[nevdully's]

[quote:db60b2ef9d]I don't see these as black and white issues, but as shades of gray. Using only one catcher is just a bit darker since it is specified you can't do this in the rules. BTW, there is nothing in the rules against dropping a $10M player either, but that will certainly generate a stream of abuse. [/quote:db60b2ef9d]

Exactly!
What's darker than Black
Yup LMAO