Roster Construct Ideas

[Casey89]

C - Bassler 3.15 +6 +5
C - Kling 1.25 +11 +11
1B - Clark 8.01 +13 +12
1B - Jennings 0.50 0 +6
2B - Fox 6.68 +12 +11
3B- Gardner 3.94 +10 +9 (psbl conflict)
SS - Reese 3.10 +11 +11
SS - Reynolds 0.52 +14 +14
LF - Irvin 5.35 +10 +11
LF - Cruz 1.00 +17 +15
CF - Snider 9.66 +11 +11
CF - Reynolds 1.34 +12 +12
RF - Waner 9.85 +10 +9
RF - Mele 0.92 +13 +13
RF - McAnay 0.96 +13 +12

15 Hitters Total = 56.23

SP - Martinez 9.28 0 0 -3 (psbl conflict)
SP - Jones 8.09 2 1 -3
SP - Russo 7.43 0 2 -2
SP - Lanier 7.03 0 0 -2
SP - Pfeister 6.95 0 2 -2
RP - Beggs 2.42 0 0 1
RP - Dawson 0.90 1 1 -4
RP - Shirley 0.85 0 2 -6
RP - Crawford 0.50 0 3 -3

9 Pitchers Total = 43.45

[supertyphoon]

I was doing a little research and it appears it will be tricky filling out two decent rosters with batters that do better vs the same hand. Most are RHB that favor RHP. Anyway, here's two strong hitting lineups that cost about the same:


C HARNETT 8.18
C PORTER 1.06
1B MUSIAL 10.86
1B .50
2B SANDBERG 8.35
2B .50
3B MOLITOR 6.22
3B EVANS 1.48
SS BANKS 7.21
LF LYONS 4.53
LF VAUGHN 0.94
CF CHARLESTON 12.89
CF .50
RF ROBINSON 9.45
RF .50

TOTAL 73.17


C FISK 7.43
C KENNEDY 0.84
1B MCGWIRE 11.09
1B 0.50
2B HORNSBY 12.00
2B 0.50
3B SANTO 7.80
SS LARKIN 5.12
SS SEWELL 2.12
LF BELLE 6.80
LF 0.50
CF STEARNES 10.41
CF 0.50
RF COLAVITO 7.73
RF 0.50

TOTAL 76.34


... now to try find some cheap reverse split and platoon pitchers ... :)

[PotKettleBlack]

Hackra... if you want to play East 4, play east 4. I have a strong suspicion from previous leagues you will do well with it.

We should also develop a mechanism to deal with conflicts (the Larry Gardners, Joe Sambitos, Joe Jacksons, Scott Brosiuses of the world).
I have (and will continue) to list alternates, but figure we should either do something random, or come to a consensus on what is fairer based on the alternatives. For example, I can walk on Sambito because there are a lot of other options at that price. Walking on Joe Jackson either reworks large amounts of the team (downgrade RF to Strawberry 86, upgrade something else, maybe Brett), or weakening the theme (6R Joe Jackson because 5R Roger Maris). On the fielding team, Joe Jackson gets turned into Slaughter, Kaline, Cuyler, Hill, Jenkins, Minoso, Roush, or up to Simmons, Bonds92 or 93. Few ways to go down as well.

Not suggesting any particular mechanism, but tie has to go to someone.

[supertyphoon]

hackra wrote:

[quote:9d6aa72fd4]sample roster east #4
poor fielding, great hitting, iffy pitching

lineup-

c - Beckwith 9.90 5(+2)e13
1b - Ruth 15.10 4e11 (Frank Thomas could work here)
2b - Tubby Scales 6.46 3e27
3b - Dick Allen 7.95 4e38 (I still say Foxx at 3b...and with a bulletproof Ruth he won't get sent to 1b)
ss - Arky Vaughn 5.25 3e29 (Luke Appling or Maury Wills may qualify)
Lf - Kiner 10.94 4(+1)e7
Cf - Hack Wilson 9.38 3(0)e12
Rf - Ted Williams 11.83 3(-1)e11

subtotal = $76.81

pitching -easy to find a $18 mil. worth of poor fielding, poor throwing pitchers (they won't be as poor throwing as a $6 group, but there are bad ones even at a higher budget)

sample pitching staff for this group
Drysedale 4.99 2e43 8NR
Ray Caldwell 3.25 3e13 5WL
Coombs 1.97 4e21 5NS
Ewell Blackwell 5.45 4e33 5NR
0.50 placeholder starter
that would be $16.16 on starters

leaving about $7 mil for relievers, backups and upgrades [/quote:9d6aa72fd4]

What effect does a 5 range at catcher have? I'm curious why you prefer Beckwith out of position instead of 4(+1)e6 Piazza at the same price. Also, is there a long relief roster spot for Bertaina? Not a bad pitcher vs Lefties, but the worst fielding card in the bunch.

[supertyphoon]

[quote:201d2eab7e="PotKettleBlack"]Hackra... if you want to play East 4, play east 4. I have a strong suspicion from previous leagues you will do well with it.

We should also develop a mechanism to deal with conflicts (the Larry Gardners, Joe Sambitos, Joe Jacksons, Scott Brosiuses of the world).
I have (and will continue) to list alternates, but figure we should either do something random, or come to a consensus on what is fairer based on the alternatives. For example, I can walk on Sambito because there are a lot of other options at that price. Walking on Joe Jackson either reworks large amounts of the team (downgrade RF to Strawberry 86, upgrade something else, maybe Brett), or weakening the theme (6R Joe Jackson because 5R Roger Maris). On the fielding team, Joe Jackson gets turned into Slaughter, Kaline, Cuyler, Hill, Jenkins, Minoso, Roush, or up to Simmons, Bonds92 or 93. Few ways to go down as well.

Not suggesting any particular mechanism, but tie has to go to someone.[/quote:201d2eab7e]

I'm going to create a spreadsheet to help me see all the proposed rosters on a single page, and highlight any possible conflicts. I think any decision on who goes on which roster will depend on suitable alternatives. As I mentioned above, the list of good LH hitters that hit better against LH pitchers is limited. If someone else wants Musial for example, it will be almost impossible to replace him on a reverse platoon team. Likewise someone has indicated they'll use Pedro in a 5-man rotation because of no balks or wild pitch, but another wants him for zero errors, in addition to 4 SP* pitchers. My gut feeling is it will be easier to replace Martinez in the latter than the former, but it will depend on how flexible each manager is willing to be.

[PotKettleBlack]

[quote:df207b7484="nexrad"]hackra wrote:

[quote:df207b7484]sample roster east #4
poor fielding, great hitting, iffy pitching

lineup-

c - Beckwith 9.90 5(+2)e13
1b - Ruth 15.10 4e11 (Frank Thomas could work here)
2b - Tubby Scales 6.46 3e27
3b - Dick Allen 7.95 4e38 (I still say Foxx at 3b...and with a bulletproof Ruth he won't get sent to 1b)
ss - Arky Vaughn 5.25 3e29 (Luke Appling or Maury Wills may qualify)
Lf - Kiner 10.94 4(+1)e7
Cf - Hack Wilson 9.38 3(0)e12
Rf - Ted Williams 11.83 3(-1)e11

subtotal = $76.81

pitching -easy to find a $18 mil. worth of poor fielding, poor throwing pitchers (they won't be as poor throwing as a $6 group, but there are bad ones even at a higher budget)

sample pitching staff for this group
Drysedale 4.99 2e43 8NR
Ray Caldwell 3.25 3e13 5WL
Coombs 1.97 4e21 5NS
Ewell Blackwell 5.45 4e33 5NR
0.50 placeholder starter
that would be $16.16 on starters

leaving about $7 mil for relievers, backups and upgrades [/quote:df207b7484]

What effect does a 5 range at catcher have? I'm curious why you prefer Beckwith out of position instead of 4(+1)e6 Piazza at the same price. Also, is there a long relief roster spot for Bertaina? Not a bad pitcher vs Lefties, but the worst fielding card in the bunch.[/quote:df207b7484]

Really, I'd go with either Piazza at the high end, or Romano 59 (c-4(+1)e10,T-15(pb-7)) at the low end.

Of course, playing Boudreau at C with a bulletproof SS would really be the worst (according to Joe the Jet's rankings, taking Hit Rating - Overall in an average park), good shot worse than Beckwith.
c-5(+5)e11,T-20(pb-20)
is apparently a lot worse than:
c-5(+2)e13,T-16(pb-6)

Tamargo would be a good backup at <1M as would Earl D. Averill or Keith Moreland.

[hackra]

[quote:f61b6a354c="PotKettleBlack"][quote:f61b6a354c="nexrad"]hackra wrote:

[quote:f61b6a354c]sample roster east #4
poor fielding, great hitting, iffy pitching

lineup-

c - Beckwith 9.90 5(+2)e13
1b - Ruth 15.10 4e11 (Frank Thomas could work here)
2b - Tubby Scales 6.46 3e27
3b - Dick Allen 7.95 4e38 (I still say Foxx at 3b...and with a bulletproof Ruth he won't get sent to 1b)
ss - Arky Vaughn 5.25 3e29 (Luke Appling or Maury Wills may qualify)
Lf - Kiner 10.94 4(+1)e7
Cf - Hack Wilson 9.38 3(0)e12
Rf - Ted Williams 11.83 3(-1)e11

subtotal = $76.81

pitching -easy to find a $18 mil. worth of poor fielding, poor throwing pitchers (they won't be as poor throwing as a $6 group, but there are bad ones even at a higher budget)

sample pitching staff for this group
Drysedale 4.99 2e43 8NR
Ray Caldwell 3.25 3e13 5WL
Coombs 1.97 4e21 5NS
Ewell Blackwell 5.45 4e33 5NR
0.50 placeholder starter
that would be $16.16 on starters

leaving about $7 mil for relievers, backups and upgrades [/quote:f61b6a354c]

What effect does a 5 range at catcher have? I'm curious why you prefer Beckwith out of position instead of 4(+1)e6 Piazza at the same price. Also, is there a long relief roster spot for Bertaina? Not a bad pitcher vs Lefties, but the worst fielding card in the bunch.[/quote:f61b6a354c]

Really, I'd go with either Piazza at the high end, or Romano 59 (c-4(+1)e10,T-15(pb-7)) at the low end.

Of course, playing Boudreau at C with a bulletproof SS would really be the worst (according to Joe the Jet's rankings, taking Hit Rating - Overall in an average park), good shot worse than Beckwith.
c-5(+5)e11,T-20(pb-20)
is apparently a lot worse than:
c-5(+2)e13,T-16(pb-6)

Tamargo would be a good backup at <1M as would Earl D. Averill or Keith Moreland.[/quote:f61b6a354c]

All of my proposed rosters were based on extreme premises...which apparently was not the intent. When I see Great Hitting I am looking for the best of hitters and Poor Pitching to me meant BAD. Regardless any of these could be modified. That is the issue with bertania..is the goal of the squad to get the worst fielders at each position, or to pick a representative poor fielder that someone might actually use. (It seems we are looking for the latter).

I will go ahead and retool my thoughts on East #4 and come up with a competetive and perhaps less extreme team and throw it up the flagpole.

Regarding East #1...I had included 2 possible squads (and there are so very many more variations that could be used) Those squads were intended to get the best fielders in terms of range and errors at each position. The hitters I could not find better fielders in terms of range and errors (Garvey 2e0 is the only zero error guy, but Gandil 1e3 is probably a tad better). Perhaps looking for a negative arm over Puhl might be a consideration for someone.

Pedro on the pitching staff is probably less appropriate than the staff with the 4 man * rotation with the 10.98 Walter Johnson. Farmer and Sambito could possibly be replaced, but seemed like the best LOOGY/ROOGY/5th starter combo with 0 errors in the pricerange when I looked.
:roll:

[PotKettleBlack]

[quote:5c5354f17b="hackra"]
Pedro on the pitching staff is probably less appropriate than the staff with the 4 man * rotation with the 10.98 Walter Johnson. Farmer and Sambito could possibly be replaced, but seemed like the best LOOGY/ROOGY/5th starter combo with 0 errors in the pricerange when I looked.
:roll:[/quote:5c5354f17b]

I am cool letting Farmer and Sambito roll, as the depth at LOOGY/ROOGY/Nickel Scrub Extreme Platoon is remarkable. Other Central Manager with same sided pitching might feel differently about it.

As to the other issues, you are actually right.
I was looking at it in terms of worst fielders, rather than total team concept.
I'd probably go with Beckwith or Allen at 3rd with Frank Thomas at first, as his bulletproofing makes it unlikely to trigger a mass exchange of out of position guys. Ruth to replace either Kiner or Williams, or really Ugly, in Center, except that I really like Ted/Hack/Ralph as a "We will Outslug our defects" in the right park.

[WeatherNut]

[quote:926b1929e2]3) All hitters have zero or positive clutch, great hitting pitchers, hitters park. [/quote:926b1929e2]

Starters
C - E. Smith 3.92
1B - Bottonley 6.80
2B - Gehringer 7.20
3B - B. Robby 7.09
SS - G. Wright 3.44
LF - Medwick 8.95
CF - Delahanty 8.79
RF - Cobb 9.36
Total = 55.55

Bench
C - Berry 0.78
IF - Stanley 0.53
IF - Picciolo 0.50
1B/OF - Paciorek 0.67
OF - Rucker 0.59
IF - Alley 0.73
1B/OF - McCraw 0.70
Total = 4.50

Starters
Mathewson 9.80
Tannehill 6.50
Griffith 5.88
Uhle 4.40
Noyes 0.50
Total = 27.08

Relievers
R - Miljus 4.61
L - McKain 2.01
R - Conzelman 1.72
L - Lefferts 2.78
R - Klinger 1.68
Total = 12.80

Total Total = 99.93

Listen, I'm not saying I want to play two teams. But, I did have what I thought were 2 good ideas for teams.

I was really thinking County '78 (15/10 15/10). Is that a good enough hitters park?

WN

[supertyphoon]

I didn't indicate clearly enough early on what I was hoping to do here. The idea is to have each team in the league using certain different types of players, but not necessarily going to extremes to do so. They should be composed primarily of starting players and pitching staffs you'd normally see in a standard $100M league ... just exaggerating the effects of fielding, platooning and clutch hitting a bit - to see for example if a fair-to-good hitting team that rarely makes an error would win more games than a team with better hitters and pitchers, but poor range and many more errors.