Other Simulation Games

[The Last Druid]

I think the board games simulates both GM and manager. Yeah the bulk of the time is spent managing, but the GM role is the more critical one. You live and die by your drafting.

[macnole]

Based on their website descriptions at
http://www.sportsmogul.com/baseballcd/help/ScoutingTabs.htm#Personality

it's more like Baseball for PS3, or World of Warcraft...rate a pitcher's 3 pitches using a 2-digit number, personality profile with a number assigned...and I think the page on pitchers says all I need to know:

[b:7c9d2dee28][color=brown:7c9d2dee28]For pitchers, the right side of the screen shows the top speed on the pitcher's fastball. It also shows their career Ground Ball Percent. If insufficient career data is available, an approximate Ground Ball Percent will be displayed, along with a description of the pitcher's tendency to induce ground balls (ranging from "very low" to "very high").

Note: A tendency to induce ground balls is not, by itself, an indicator of effectiveness. The most dominant pitchers are strikeout pitchers, and they tend to induce few ground balls.[/color:7c9d2dee28] [/b:7c9d2dee28]

Tell that to Greg Maddux! Anyway, I agree with whoever said the best would be combinations. Something like this game's "wrapping" and environment with SOM's engine would be cool. Shows how backwards and archaic SOM/SOMO is on the wrapping piece.

[TRW]

[quote:07395bd12c="DeanTSC"]
TSN SOM primarily simulates being a general manager, with the caveat that you only need to worry about one season. For that season, you draft a roster, make waiver moves and trades, and essentially "hire" a manager. You can tell that manager what lineups to use and how you want the team to be managed generally, but, like a real GM, you can't determine every in-game move.[/quote:07395bd12c]


I must be missing something. Where in SOM do you "hire" a manager? Is there somewhere I can hire a virtual Bobby Valentine, billy martin or Tommy LaSorda to manage my team? That would actually be kind of cool, well maybe...

Or are you just talking about the game's AI?

[Mean Dean]

Right, it was an analogy; I meant to illustrate that you can have the "type" of manager that you want, but you can't dictate every on-field decision "he" makes.

With respect to the board game, certainly if you have a draft and/or keepers, you are bringing a GM element in it. And SOM definitely won't discourage you from doing that, but from their point of view, they are making a replay game. The cards (probabilities, fielding ratings, etc.) are based on the assumption that you're doing a replay. So I see draft league play as a "variant", so to speak.

[supertyphoon]

I've played this game as it has evolved over the years:

Bill James Classic Baseball (you got the weekly results by fax or mail - how quaint)
STATS Inc. / Bill James Classic Baseball (play online - a huge upgrade)
STATS Inc. / STATS Diamond Legends
ESPN.com / ESPN Classic Fantasy Baseball (same as Diamond Legends, much wider audience)

sidebar- FoxSports.com buys STATS Inc. STATS later pulls the plug on Diamond Legends, and ESPN.com is forced to dump the game. From the ashes, a new version of the old game emerges.

Simnasium / Total Baseball, using the same Diamond Mind game engine.
Diamond Mind / Rob Neyer Baseball
Imagine Sports / Diamond Mind Classic Fantasy Baseball

[bkeat23]

[quote:2029d32dff="DeanTSC"]As I see it, Mogul primarily simulates being an owner. As stated, you will have to deal with ticket and concession prices, TV contracts, stadiums, etc. The emphasis is on running a franchise over a period of years -- making decisions about contracts, free agents, drafts, etc., and making sure that the operation is financially profitable.

Board game SOM primarily simulates being an in-game manager. The emphasis is on how well you can make lineups, bring in relievers, and otherwise manage strategically (ideally, doing so with actual rosters from a given MLB season.)

TSN SOM primarily simulates being a general manager, with the caveat that you only need to worry about one season. For that season, you draft a roster, make waiver moves and trades, and essentially "hire" a manager. You can tell that manager what lineups to use and how you want the team to be managed generally, but, like a real GM, you can't determine every in-game move.[/quote:2029d32dff]

Some friends and I used the Strat board game to run leagues with the financials and owner/GM stuff. Muni bonds to finance the stadium, avg concessions per person multipied by attendance minus a percentage for bad weather, other things I don't recall....and I think we had 6 or 8 guys in the league for most years. This was in the 70's, so I'm fuzzy on the minute details.

[macnole]

that's pretty cool bkeat.

and Dean summed it all well I think

[PotKettleBlack]

[quote:588b367a1c="nexrad"]I've played this game as it has evolved over the years:

Bill James Classic Baseball (you got the weekly results by fax or mail - how quaint)
STATS Inc. / Bill James Classic Baseball (play online - a huge upgrade)
STATS Inc. / STATS Diamond Legends
ESPN.com / ESPN Classic Fantasy Baseball (same as Diamond Legends, much wider audience)

sidebar- FoxSports.com buys STATS Inc. STATS later pulls the plug on Diamond Legends, and ESPN.com is forced to dump the game. From the ashes, a new version of the old game emerges.

Simnasium / Total Baseball, using the same Diamond Mind game engine.
Diamond Mind / Rob Neyer Baseball
Imagine Sports / Diamond Mind Classic Fantasy Baseball[/quote:588b367a1c]

I miss ESPN Classic Fantasy... I liked that your guys would be based on their careers. I liked the way they did catchers. I liked the minor league. Interesting game. I even liked that they made an effort to normalize guys to a common era, rather than normalizing to a particular season (what is done in Strat).

What is done in Strat makes more sense for year to year simulation, or even a decade style game. What is done in DiamondMind makes more sense for an ATG type game.

[Paul_Long71]

and there's always www.pennantchase.com as well. It's free and lots of customizable options.

[gfg001]

YEs, Pennant Chase can be fun,less interaction between managers is the negative. Infinite choice of players and seasons. Odd way to draft, much prefer waivers of strat.

Greg