If Posada gets in then I think Mickey Tettleton should be too 8-) Come on guys, let's go back to only having HALL OF FAMER"S in the hall - not borderline guys who were lucky that they played for a team that got them a lot of publicity.
Just my 2 cents, FZL
Posada Hall Of Fame?
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by Sheikyerboudi » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:48 am
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by nevdully's » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:50 am
Mostly what FZL said. (I wouldn't even think borderline...and I love Posada)
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by nevdully's » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:22 am
Guys the fact that he was a switch hitter is about as important to getting in the Hall of Fame as having flowing dark hair.
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by PotKettleBlack » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:32 am
[quote:712cb511c4="nexrad"][quote:712cb511c4]But my Hall is a tighter club than the BBWA club.[/quote:712cb511c4]
That's very tight indeed. Most BBWA members refuse to vote for more than 4 or 5 players, even though they're allowed up to 10. If everyone voted for the 10 "most deserving" instead of 2 or 3 that meet their individual criteria for selection, guys like Raines would have a better shot at reaching 75% instead of languishing around 40-50% every year.[/quote:712cb511c4]
Even with them doing it as they have, they put Jim Rice in, which I think was marginal at best. There are a number of other people I'd kick
That's very tight indeed. Most BBWA members refuse to vote for more than 4 or 5 players, even though they're allowed up to 10. If everyone voted for the 10 "most deserving" instead of 2 or 3 that meet their individual criteria for selection, guys like Raines would have a better shot at reaching 75% instead of languishing around 40-50% every year.[/quote:712cb511c4]
Even with them doing it as they have, they put Jim Rice in, which I think was marginal at best. There are a number of other people I'd kick
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by Mean Dean » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:42 pm
[url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/posadjo01.shtml]Posada[/url] is eerily similar to [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml]Simmons[/url], IMO:[list:d7921e025f][*:d7921e025f]Switch-hitters[*:d7921e025f]Great bats for catchers[*:d7921e025f]No huge seasons, but consistently either the best-hitting catcher in the league or damn close[*:d7921e025f]Mediocre fielders[/list:u:d7921e025f]You can't expect catchers to lead the league in offensive categories; only [i:d7921e025f]really[/i:d7921e025f] great hitters like Piazza are going to be able to do that. But Simmons led all catchers in career hits when he retired, and although I'm not gonna check right now, I'm sure Posada's career 121 OPS+¹ is among the best at the position. These are two of the better-hitting backstops in history.
I like to try to identify a player's "prime" and judge players based on that, since I don't think mediocre seasons are relevant to the HOF.
Simmons from 1972-1983 (1,732 games) had a 126 OPS+ and 52.2 offensive Wins Above Replacement (WAR).
Posada from 2000-10 (1,422 games) actually had a better OPS+, of 127.
Now, that's in fewer games, so it's less impressive (adding up to 43.7 offensive WAR for Jorge). And we are leaving a 1971 season where Simmons got MVP votes out of that calculation. (Posada's 1998 was not bad either, however.) Simmons was better, but I maintain they are in the same ballpark. I think if you agree with me that Simmons should easily be in, then Posada has to be at least borderline and someone who should be carefully considered.
¹ i.e., once everything is adjusted for league average, stadium, etc., he created about 21% more runs than average.
I like to try to identify a player's "prime" and judge players based on that, since I don't think mediocre seasons are relevant to the HOF.
Simmons from 1972-1983 (1,732 games) had a 126 OPS+ and 52.2 offensive Wins Above Replacement (WAR).
Posada from 2000-10 (1,422 games) actually had a better OPS+, of 127.
Now, that's in fewer games, so it's less impressive (adding up to 43.7 offensive WAR for Jorge). And we are leaving a 1971 season where Simmons got MVP votes out of that calculation. (Posada's 1998 was not bad either, however.) Simmons was better, but I maintain they are in the same ballpark. I think if you agree with me that Simmons should easily be in, then Posada has to be at least borderline and someone who should be carefully considered.
¹ i.e., once everything is adjusted for league average, stadium, etc., he created about 21% more runs than average.
Last edited by Mean Dean on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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by supertyphoon » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:43 pm
Voting in borderline OFs Rice and Dawson ahead of Raines is a real head-scratcher to me.
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by Sheikyerboudi » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:04 pm
DeanTSC - I would agree with you with one exception: Simmons wouldn't know a walk if it came up and bit him on the a_s - which is why I made the Tettleton reference.
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by honestiago1 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:26 pm
He's not getting in, though he was very, very good. You can put whole teams of guys like that together (when I think of that, I think of Del Ennis).
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