Now playing: The 2011 Season

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

[quote:f110ae003e="Ninersphan"]

am I the only one that saves the ratings books :wink:[/quote:f110ae003e]

probably good buddy, probably.

[Ninersphan]

[quote:d1c98914de="superflymacdaddyjuice"]reasonably close stat lines there, no? way more plates.[/quote:d1c98914de]

and I beleive he's the only non catcher with over 200 ab's to ever be excluded.

REALLY pissed me off that year.

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

i also remember thinking fuld should have been out a couple of years ago but made it in. his was more of an OBP card without the hits.

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

[quote:002f6467e3="Ninersphan"][quote:002f6467e3="superflymacdaddyjuice"]reasonably close stat lines there, no? way more plates.[/quote:002f6467e3]

and i beleive he's the only non catcher with over 200 ab's to be excluded.

REALLY pissed me off that year.[/quote:002f6467e3]

yeah it's longer ago than i would have liked, but i was just trying to illustrate the point that it has happened before.

[Paul_Long71]

still doesn't explain Lawrie's inclusion with a better card (slightly) while DeAza is excluded.

the only argument I've heard regarding that is that Lawrie is thought of as a better prospect (Baseball America, etc...). Don't think that should matter in a game based on the year 2011 and not some future possibilities.....plus who really knows what each will do in the future. Right now they both are projected to start for their respective teams this upcoming year.

[Ninersphan]

[quote:d318e8da92="superflymacdaddyjuice"]i also remember thinking fuld should have been out a couple of years ago but made it in. his was more of an OBP card without the hits.[/quote:d318e8da92]

Fuld 2009
[b:d318e8da92]97 ab's[/b:d318e8da92]

left: 29.9 hit 44.9 OB 48.8 tb 3hr 3BP -7cl 12dp
right: 24.5 hit 49.5 OB 32tb 0hr wBP -7cl 12dp


there's a little pop there vs the left side and overall decent on total bases, so it's not JUST on base, but [b:d318e8da92]97 ab's[/b:d318e8da92] and he was in,
but not Baerga nor De Aza

there's just no consistancy from year to year...and that's my biggest complaint.

Forget 2 sets, make one, include everyone , then we know, no fuss no muss, no mystery.

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

I cant help but think it has something to do with ADA being able to win a batting title. that is a concrete difference in the cards. it also makes him more like the card that set the precedent (baegra) and to a lesser degree ellsbury. while contrasting him sharply with all the other cards we have discussed with borderline plates.

[superflymacdaddyjuice]

[quote:2ce6e68f6c="Ninersphan"]

Forget 2 sets, make one, include everyone , then we know, no fuss no muss, no mystery.[/quote:2ce6e68f6c]

more options rather than less... I see you point, but why limit the options?

I wish I could afford to buy you a parmalee jersey.

[bernieh]

Okdoke,

First of all, let me say that I fully acknowledge that the decisions on which cards to hold out of the standard set are indeed subjective, and I also acknowledge that I'm not always 100% right in the decisions that I make, especially since there are always borderline cases that could go either way.

However, the decisions are certainly not arbitrary - each one has a reasoning behind it - so let me explain why so far I still haven't heard any solidly convincing arguments that would compel me to change my mind. Again, please read this general statement first: [url=http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/Fluke_cards]http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/Fluke_cards[/url].

[quote:1d175639f2="socalchiro"]But, WE are paying $ to play a FANTASY baseball game. How realistic is it when Barry Bonds/Josh Wilson/ Jeff Bagwell etc... mash ATG pitchers? How realistic is it when a guy like Greg Maddux gets hammered and gives up 55 HR's a season? How realistic is it when Pete Alexander walk 6 guys in a game or gives up 60 HR's in a season?

The answer? It's not. It's not suppose to be. It's a FANTASY game.[/quote:1d175639f2]
While the structure of our leagues does make for some seemingly unrealistic stats, most of them actually can be logically explained as somewhat reflective of reality, e.g. that's what might happen when you put Bonds in Coors Field; that's what might happen when Greg Maddux faces all-star lineups every day. Randy Ruiz hitting 60 HR over a full season would be more bizarre than most other things that happen in SOM Online.

Still, even if there were other stranger occurrences in the game than the fluke cards, it doesn't mean we shouldn't still strive for realism in areas we can control. Yes, this is a fantasy game, but it doesn't mean we're going to be putting orcs and dragons in the draft pool.

[quote:1d175639f2="socalchiro"]I have no problems paying top $ for a guy like De Aza, Perez, Alonso etc... knowing they could get hurt often.[/quote:1d175639f2]
It's not at all about saving you from your own decisions. It's about avoiding the kind of unrealistic performances that [i:1d175639f2]have turned customers off in the past[/i:1d175639f2]. In 2001 we had Pedro Feliz hitting 60 HR a season, and we heard a lot of complaints about that. We can't look at it from just your perspective - I know [i:1d175639f2]you'd[/i:1d175639f2] be fine with these fluke performances. But a lot more of our casual fans wouldn't be.

[quote:1d175639f2="Mr. Baseball World"]I would assume the difference between De Aza and Lawrie is about expectations. Lawrie is a higher end prospect anticipated to have a long career with the potential to put up big offensive numbers. De Aza is not as high end of a prospect and the offensive expectations for him don't match the card.[/quote:1d175639f2]
This.

[quote:1d175639f2="socalchiro"]MrBBW...We all know what happens with prospects.

Nobody is ever a sure thing...[/quote:1d175639f2]
And no one is saying that they are. It's about what's [i:1d175639f2]believable[/i:1d175639f2]. No one would be surprised if Brett Lawrie put up a monster full-season line next year, but they would be if De Aza put up another .920 OPS. This is the key point.

That's what's behind Lawrie and Ike Davis staying in - they're elite hitting prospects who you could [i:1d175639f2]believe[/i:1d175639f2] could put up these numbers over a full season. In Jason Giambi's case, he gets the veteran's exception - yes, I know his 2011 was mostly off the bench, but it's [i:1d175639f2]believable[/i:1d175639f2] that he's still a good hitter. Henry Blanco's known for being weak with the stick, and would have been included had he been given merely a good, balanced card... but instead he was given [b:1d175639f2]the most homerun power against lefties in the entire set[/b:1d175639f2] (after fluke exclusions Langerhans and Liddi). Yes, the process is ultimately subjective, but I think that's at least a solid reasoning for that particular decision.

You know, it'd be much less work for me to just go ahead and include everybody in the one set. But in my 10 years of being at the helm of this ship I've had the responsibility to accommodate not just one type of user, but all - and in fact it is for that reason I started the "Unleashed" set 3 years ago; before that you never even had the option to play with the annual fluke exclusions.

[quote:1d175639f2="socalchiro"]I'd like to see 2 sets released. The regular set and then a second set with EVERYBODY carded.[/quote:1d175639f2]
Sorry, is this is a joke, or are you suggesting something that we're not already doing? If it's the former, nice one :).

But seriously, someone please tell me why all these keeper leagues who depend on having some of the fluke card exclusions don't just play with the Unleashed set? I don't know much about the keeper league community, and I want to educate myself because I've been asked to support it more.

So I'm already giving you all the fluke cards. Am I not? Seriously, I want to know.

Thanks...!

[Ninersphan]

[quote:52ac6bf32e="superflymacdaddyjuice"]I cant help but think it has something to do with ADA being able to win a batting title. that is a concrete difference in the cards.[/quote:52ac6bf32e]

I'm sure you are right, I seem to remmber in years past that that was the argument made for some big HR card with limited at bats being left out, and it was said, (by bernie, I beleive)and I'm parapharsing here:

[i:52ac6bf32e]We can't have so-and-so be the homerun leader over Bonds or Pujols, that's just not realistic[/i:52ac6bf32e]

which has always stuck in my craw cause there are so many things about this game that aren't realistc, 4 man pitching staffs, relief pitchers throwing 200 plus innings, guys stealing 80=100 bases, with all that "unrealistic" stuff who the hell cares which names is atop a leader board...

To me you can't have it both ways, you want realism, go full bore, innings limited to what guys pitched, ab's limited to how many they had...

Ah but that "wouldn't be any fun" exactly, so again what difference does it make.