Jeter Haters

[andycummings65]

Jeter has been a very good player for a very long time. I respect him. He never has "issues", and he is a fine leader. He is a Hall of Fame player.

What I "hate" is the media-driven drooling over Jeter and his "intangibles". Put Jeter on the Royals for the last 15 years and give them the payroll that the Yankees have used since 1996, and I think the list of Yankees seasonal records that Charlie posted might have a more powder blue hue.

Yes, other teams have developed high payrolls over the last few seasons, but no one can dispute that there is a definite symbiotic relationship between Jeter's "winner" label and the Yankees overflowing pocketbooks. No other team can miss on so many players: Jason Giambi, Carl Pavano, Jose Contreras, Jon Leiber, Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Hideki Irabu, AJ Burnett (and the list goes on...) and just buy someone else and keep rolling. Chien Ming Wang's breakout years in 2005 & 2006, followed by injury and subsequent loss of ability would have devastated most other franchises. :roll:

[visick]

And all this makes hime worth $15 million a year?

Hell, I'm 45 y/o. I could hit .230 vs. RH's, make sure guys don't drink beer or eat fried chicken and be a positive influence in the clubhouse.

I'd do it for 1/3 of what he gets.

FTR, I wasn't a Jeter hater till this past off season. I didn't like that he had the upper hand on Yankee management. They had to give him a blank check or else it would have been a PR nightmare. His #'s last season didn't warrant a 3 year/$15 million per contract. He NEVER would have gotten anything close to that contract from any other team.

I mean take away his name. Last season. Let's say player A puts up those #'s he put up last year. That's worthy of $15 million per year for 3 years? Because he won't put up with beer or fried chicken in the clubhouse?

Let's see his #'s at the end of the season. Let's see what they look like vs. the majority of pitchers, which are RH. At this point in his career, he should be in the 8 or 9 hole vs. RH. Heaven forbid someone brings that up to him...

[gkhd11a]

Well the Dodgers sold for a couple billion. I would say at 15 million the value contributed to the Yankees by his current and future presence to the organization will far exceed whatever they pay him. Which is what the Yankees realized and why they are paying him. The Yankees must be worth 5-10 billion dollars.

If his play deteriorates rapidly he will not stay around long I do not think. But I still think he will lead the Yankees to 88+ wins

[ROBERTLATORRE]

[quote:7c7f79c198="socalchiro"]And all this makes hime worth $15 million a year?

Hell, I'm 45 y/o. I could hit .230 vs. RH's, make sure guys don't drink beer or eat fried chicken and be a positive influence in the clubhouse.....[/quote:7c7f79c198]

Leadership in the locker room has a huge affect on team success. If the Jet's had leadership from Sanchez on offense and Scott on defense, they wouldn't be such a mess. Look at the Broncos and Tebow, his quarterbacking ability didn't get them to the playoffs, but the level of play of the team completely changed when he took over, and the same team with a leader performed significantly better than a team without one.

How did the Giants win the championship this year with no running game, a slightly better than average defense? Manning and strong leaders on the defensive line.

We've all played on teams with complete tools as the loudest voice in the huddle or on the practice field/court, and NO ONE performs up to their abilities. That holds true in the workplace as well. EVERYONE performs better when they believe that they are following a capable, strong leader with integrity.

[gkhd11a]

Alphonso Soriano 19MM
Vernon Wells 23MM
Carlos Beltran 19M
Barry Zito 19M
Carlos Lee 19M
Jason Bay 18MM
Josh Beckett 17MM
AJ Burnett 17MM

Take your pick I'll take Jeter

[Measured Mayhem]

Derek Jeter is a sure fire hall of famer and a big piece of the yankees winning. Him, Posada, and williams put up good to great offensive numbers at offensively scarce positions, which served as a great core (along with rivera) for a successful dynasty.

That being said he is currently grossly overpaid. Jeters total WAR for the last 2 full seasons (2010,2011) is 2.0. An average player is expected to yield a 2 war in a single season. Therefore he is essentially being paid large sums of money to be a decently below average player.

Also lets look at his defense properly
Def war per year
1995: -0.5
1996: -1.3
1997: -0.2
1998: 0.2
1999: -1.3
2000: -2.4
2001: -1.7
2002: -1.8
2003: -1.5
2004: 0.5
2005: -0.5
2006: -0.4
2007: -1.4
2008: -0.5
2009: 0.3
2010: -0.9
2011: -1.3

As you can see though he may have a good fld% he has been a consistently poor defensive SS due to poor range. One year may be be a fluke with WAR but this is a pretty large sample of poor WAR. He was only a positive (and a slight one at that) in 3 of his 17 seasons.

In the end Jeter is a sure fire hall of famer because he was a tolerably bad defensive shortstop, while being one of the best offense shortstops ever for a good long period of time (95-09) with great durability(under 148 games just once in that period) and he was paid handsomely for that period ($184 million). However, he has grossly been overpaid the last 2 years and may continue to be for a couple more.

[nels52]

The Yankees may be evil but.... Derek Jeter is one of the best shortstops ever. He's right up there with Wagner or Banks expect he is in the exceptional positon where he has four WS rings!

His counting number are up there with anyone. He's a career .313 hitter. The man has over 300 steals at over 75%. He has had exceptional power and offensive abiltiy for a SS and has done so for uber-rich/talented Yankees.

In terms of his defense, he does have 5 gold gloves no matter how ridiculous some of them may seem. I highly doubt that absoluteness of some of these advanced fielding stats...... Having not watched him everyday for 15+ years I don't really know how good his D is (neither do you guys) but I'd have to think it's been pretty good ESPECIALLY when considering his very real intangibles.

Since 2006: Jeter's hitting .314 with over 190 hits a year. That's still really good and I don't think he's done yet.

Biggest icon for the biggest franchise = rich dude



Oh and I'd take him over Dunn and Rios anyday. :twisted:

[Hack Wilson]

I would not say he's been bad defensively, just about average, taking into account his progressive aging. He's one of the few shortstops ever to keep playing the position at his age. He is what he is.

[visick]

[quote:893ccf4eb1]Ted Williams once said if the Red Sox had Rizzuto they would have had a few championship rings on their fingers.[/quote:893ccf4eb1]

I look at it this way. Maybe if the Yankees had MORE from the SS position, they would have more than 1 WS in the past 10 years.

If Jeter can be a huge part of them winning, he surely can be a huge part of them losing.

[macnole]

[quote:7e5dfdafdf="gkhd11a"]Alphonso Soriano 19MM
Vernon Wells 23MM
Carlos Beltran 19M
Barry Zito 19M
Carlos Lee 19M
Jason Bay 18MM
Josh Beckett 17MM
AJ Burnett 17MM

Take your pick I'll take Jeter[/quote:7e5dfdafdf]
that is key. All I did was pull the pin on the grenade and lob it out there.

Love him or hate him, I think the real story are the stupid Yankee fans who left his corner last year. And second, the real value of Jeter is beyond the field--he made the Yankee brand. He could just suit up every night and give a post game analysis and he'd be worth a salary.

Long time yankee fan here--I don't long for the bobby murcer, oscar gamble, or even the ralph houk and for that matter, don mattingly years. Fine player or not, Mattingly didn't inspire nor lead--he played like a champion--but didn't inspire a champion spirit--and I'm a huge fan of his.

interesting debate.