Jeter Haters

[geekor]

I am a huge homer for the Angels, but that shouldn't cloud judgement.

And Jeter still sucks defensively, too bad in 10 years the HOF will probably look at the faulty gold glove voting instead of actual data.

Even as a non-homer, I still believe he was of the best SS of this generation, behind ARod, and still deserves to be in the HOF eventually.

But best ever? Umm.. maybe you can talk me into top 10, lol

[Guynick]

[quote:0c8ef6de5d="macnole"][quote:0c8ef6de5d="Guynick"][quote:0c8ef6de5d="socalchiro"]It's amazing someone can make $15 million for policing the fried chicken and beer consumption.[/quote:0c8ef6de5d]

Managers and coaches do that work much cheaper.[/quote:0c8ef6de5d]

Not in a professional setting they don't. The dynamic of a sports business with a team of highly paid athletes requires buy-in from key team members--one of the union guys so to speak. And there is a constant wedge between the manager's power/influence and the fact people come to see players; not the manager. Managers are viewed as replaceable--players are a different investment with different ROI decision points.

It's a lot different than a college team environment or little league.

Socal--your pre-determined position is pretty clear, even after his handful of ABs...and whether he has another handful of ABs in the other direction, it won't make a difference to you. That's ok; that's why I threw it out there because he is a classic anti-saber case study in success.

Teams don't win based on stats; just ask the Cowboys. It doesn't tell the whole story and doesn't guarantee anything. It also is the reason they actually play instead of just simming it.

I'm glad he dumped the girl friend--that is always a good move for a pro athlete (Agassi the exception once he settled down with Graf).[/quote:0c8ef6de5d]

Of course the players have to buy in, and of course it's worth something to have clubhouse leadership. Whether it's worth $15M for that plus mediocre defence and declining bat is the issue with Jeter.

Teams completely and utterly win on stats. How many championship teams are outscored over the course of a season? Pretty much none. Leadership is useful insofar as it helps you produce the stats.

[macnole]

well classic chicken and egg then as written.

Really this debate is what makes baseball a fascinating sport every spring and fall, even for all its tarnish.

There is not nearly this amount of nuance in other pro sports in my opinion. On any given day, some shlep like Jeter may dart across the field and flip a ball to the catcher, saving a run and turning the tide of the game, even with a little help from the ump. Just for instance. :wink:
he's not the strongest, fastest, smoothest, most skilled, etc...but he has played a long career in arguably sports' toughest franchise being none of that.

No right answer--yes a playful jab at Yankee fans who wrote him off and left him for dead last summer. I'm more appreciative of what he has done for the brand.

He won't keep up the pace he has had since last summer, but one thing is for sure--he will keep coming out to the park every day being a ballplayer. The kind of ballplayer we all imagined as kids when we think of a [i:394e94483d]ballplayer[/i:394e94483d].

[ROBERTLATORRE]

[quote:4e630751e4="geekor"]I am a huge homer for the Angels, but that shouldn't cloud judgement.

And Jeter still sucks defensively, too bad in 10 years the HOF will probably look at the faulty gold glove voting instead of actual data.

Even as a non-homer, I still believe he was of the best SS of this generation, behind ARod, and still deserves to be in the HOF eventually.

But best ever? Umm.. maybe you can talk me into top 10, lol[/quote:4e630751e4]

As much of a Yankee homer that I am, Jeter is not the best all time, definitely top 10, "maybe" middle of top 10 IMO.

[Quincy Wilson]

Well, this is most interesting and since I don't follow Yankee baseball that much
I don't really have an opinion.But I wondered what Jeter should be paid if he
played for one of the Chicago teams. I compared his performance and salary
to Chicago players Zambrano, Dempster, Soriano, Fukudome(with Cleveland)
Buerhle, Peavy, Rios, and Dunn using the Strat 2011 game pricing as an eveluation and discovered based on His 2011 salary and strato pricing that
Jeter should be paid $24,926,802. Now if you object to using pitchers and
Fukudome in this comparison than just using Soriano, Rios and Dunn I get a projected salary of $53,557,490. Of course, to make this salary he would have to play for the Cubs or White Sox, a fate worse than retirement.

[macnole]

Ha! Well maybe the White Sox would be such a fate...but the other side of town has the great Cubbie franchise. Seems he would have fit in well there in such a traditional classic baseball city.

[Quincy Wilson]

And have you noticed the new administration has rocketed the Cubs to a 3-9
start! At this rate the Cubs are a shoo-in to win there next World Series sometime in the next 1000 years.

[The Rivs]

Unfortunately, there are folks who know nothing about baseball coz they never been inside of it, and there are those that think stats are everything, and clutch is just luck. Unfortunately Geekor you are both. Too bad 4 you.

Jeter retires on a nice slow arc, and he is only outclassed by Wagner at SS. Trust me, if you don't see this, you are wrong.
actually, if you don't see it you're...
Just goofy. Just plain goofy.

Career length, rings, sustained excellence at the toughest spot on the diamond, consistency baby. A winner.
You 'haters' seem to have such a problem with that it makes me laugh. Then it makes me sad 4 U. Then I go to sleep and wake up the next day to see Jeter hit a dinger in the 9th inning, doing all he can in the clutch for his team...check the scoreboard, uh oh, DJ is usually winning, and your team prolly isn't.

[visick]

I highly doubt geekor relies only on stats when he comments about somebody.

I played many years of baseball in my younger days.

I will admit, Jeter was a very good SS. The key word being WAS.

Why is he usually mentioned with all the Yankee sucess YET never mentioned when they don't win it all? For a team with their salary, they have 1 WS ring in the last 11 years.

We hear about their pitching woes, ARod's decline etc... Yet nobody talks about Jeter killing rallies hitting into double plays and his .230 BA vs. RH's.

I'm an athiest (not that it matters here) but speaking negatively about DJ you get the same defensive stance as when you say there's no God or Jesus Christ.

I always hate to say this in an arguement, but it hasn't been brought up here. He was a very good player that was helped out tremendously by the lineup around him. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But suppose he was on the Royals? How about if he came up with, IDK Seattle? Could he carry an entire organization and get "his" rings?

I'm not a numbers guy. It's probably why I don't have alot of Strat WS championships. But I do know this. 1 WS ring in 11 years. If we can give him ALOT of credit for his previous WS rings, we can surely give his credit for NOT winning lately as well.

[macnole]

[quote:70961a1d85="The Rivs"]Unfortunately, there are folks who know nothing about baseball coz they never been inside of it, and there are those that think stats are everything, and clutch is just luck. Unfortunately Geekor you are both. Too bad 4 you.

Jeter retires on a nice slow arc, and he is only outclassed by Wagner at SS. Trust me, if you don't see this, you are wrong.
actually, if you don't see it you're...
Just goofy. Just plain goofy.

Career length, rings, sustained excellence at the toughest spot on the diamond, consistency baby. A winner.
You 'haters' seem to have such a problem with that it makes me laugh. Then it makes me sad 4 U. Then I go to sleep and wake up the next day to see Jeter hit a dinger in the 9th inning, doing all he can in the clutch for his team...check the scoreboard, uh oh, DJ is usually winning, and your team prolly isn't.[/quote:70961a1d85]

That is pretty funny