2's in CF

[nels52]

What are peoples thoughts on playing 2's in CF? I've only done it a few times--and lost. How about guys like W. Brown, Mantle, Duffy or 8.25 Ott, Crawford etc? I know the injury risk Cobb is very popular in CF.


Can guys like this be winners in 80-100 mil or are 2's in CF really that bad?

[coyote303]

[quote:dca0990280="nels52"]What are peoples thoughts on playing 2's in CF? I've only done it a few times--and lost. How about guys like W. Brown, Mantle, Duffy or 8.25 Ott, Crawford etc? I know the injury risk Cobb is very popular in CF.


Can guys like this be winners in 80-100 mil or are 2's in CF really that bad?[/quote:dca0990280]

Long answer: Would you ever play a 2 at third base?

Centerfield and third base have exactly the same chance to come up. A 2 centerfielder does have an extra chance for a hit, including a double, compared to a 2 at thirdbase. However, a 2 at third base loses five chances for a double play compared to a 1.

Short answer: Yes, I will play a 2 in centerfield.

EDIT: thirdbaseman 2 loses five (not seven) DP chances.

[YountFan]

Based on the 3b comparison you can play a 3 in CF, which people seem to be dead set against.

[nels52]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Really interesting stuff coyote. I kinda wonder if it's that simple though. Perhaps a 1 at 3b isn't as good as having a 1 in center? 2's at both positions are the same, but the upgrade to a 1 makes a huge difference...3's definitely don't work like they do at third. (although Weinberg wins with Jimmy Wynn)


Having said that, I think/know 2's in center can win but I just wonder if they're actually better bargains than 1's; who at times seem a bit overpriced or at least expensive.

[coyote303]

[quote:d85d514188="YountFan"]Based on the 3b comparison you can play a 3 in CF, which people seem to be dead set against.[/quote:d85d514188]

I'd prefer not to play a 3 in CF as well, which gives up 6/20 hits and half of the hits are doubles. This compares to 4/20 hits for a 3 at 3B, all singles. (The 3B 3 also loses five additional DP chances.)

The ratios for hits (2 CF vs 2 3B, 3 CF vs 3 3B) are the same, but it seems worse as the total number of hits increases.

[PotKettleBlack]

The value from the offense defense work from DeanTSC suggests that 3B/CF isn't that great a comp, despite the similar number of play chances.

Each increase in range (at the same level of errors) nets an increase in NERP allowed over the season. For CF, DeanTSC calculated it at ~8 from 1 to 2, ~9 for 2 to 3, ~ 14 from 3 to 4, and another 14 from 4 to five.

3rd base, goes ~5 from 1-2, ~4.5 from 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5.

The increase in doubles explains the more rapid expansion and the higher values in CF. It also explains why people routinely play very lousy defensive third basemen, but no one plays Heavy Johnson in CF.

[dwightskino211]

Isn't the arm in CF more important? A 2 is ok, but in ATG the -5, -4 arm is huge. More runners chances for taking an extra base in CF, not as many in RF and LF.

I'd rather have a Kaline (for example) at 2 -4 arm than say a 1 with a 0, -1, +1 arm. I don't think you can just look at only one aspect of the total defense of an outfielder, to make your choices. E rating counts as well. If pitchers cards could speak, they would tell me: I want the great arm too!!

[Treyomo]

Defense is overpriced. I've had decent success loading a team full of 2/3 rated defenders who are great hitters, and spending that extra cash on better SP. I would never hesitate to play a 2 at any position, including CF.

[dukie98]

As long as they otherwise fit your park and strategy, I have no problem with using a 2 in CF. I just finished up a $100M team with Lenny Dykstra (2e5/ -1 arm) as my everyday CF, which led the league in runs against by a healthy margin. I've also used Wynn in Hilltop/ Minute Maid successfully, as the added offense more than offset the defensive trade-off.

[chuckwonup]

Fielding is over rated! Play Mantle there all the time.