BACK TO 1985 - Finals - London Knights win championship!

[Sykes25]

Please FOR THE LOVE OF GOD check out this link from the General Forum.

http://forums-beta.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=598400

[YountFan]

[b:c7b06c658b]Decade All-Time Leaders.[/b:c7b06c658b] 1250 AB Min, 500 IP for Starters and 250 IP for Relievers

[url=http://home.comcast.net/~miklos2000/decade_alltime_leaders.pdf]Decade All-Time Leaders[/url] (Right Click..SaveAs)

[b:c7b06c658b]Decade Single Season Leaders. [/b:c7b06c658b]

[url=http://home.comcast.net/~miklos2000/decade_season_leaders.pdf]Decade Single Season Leaders[/url] (Right Click..SaveAs)


[b:c7b06c658b]Decade Hitters Encyclopedia. [/b:c7b06c658b]

[url=http://home.comcast.net/~miklos2000/decade_hitters.pdf]Decade Hitters Encyclopedia[/url] (Right Click..SaveAs)

[b:c7b06c658b]Decade Pitchers Encyclopedia.
[/b:c7b06c658b]
[url=http://home.comcast.net/~miklos2000/decade_pitchers.pdf]Decade Pitchers Encyclopedia[/url] (Right Click..SaveAs)

[YountFan]

For you consideration.

Player A plays ina park with no ballpark effect. Zero for singles and zero for homeruns. This player is a
.250 hitter with 20 double and 20 homers amd a modest number of walks.
[code:1:101cf9411d]
AB H 2B HR BB BA OBP SLG OPS BP> BP#
600 150 20 20 40 .250 .297 .383 .680 0 0
[/code:1:101cf9411d]

If we make the following assumptions:
1. That 5% of the at bats are affected by ball park singles. This is very close to reality as almost all hitters and pitchers have 5 > per side. 5% of 600 at bats are 30 ab, but only half of these are at home. So the 'park effect' at bats are 15.
2. We assume the same 5% for ball park homers. This is less accurate than the singles because of the way the # are distributed, but the max is 8 and the min is 0, so 5 is a good average for agruments sake. These also yield 15 'park effect' at bats.


Put the player in Jack Murphy and the 15 bp > and 15 bp # yeild no increase in BA or OBP, but a 60 point increase in slugging.

[code:1:101cf9411d]
AB H 2B HR BB BA OBP SLG OPS BP> BP#
600 162 20 32 40 .270 .316 .463 .779 0 16
[/code:1:101cf9411d]

Put the player in Fenways and the 15 bp > and 15 bp # yeild an increase in BA and OBP and SLG. In fact the OPS is 20 points higher than in Jack Murphy because of this.

[code:1:101cf9411d]
AB H 2B HR BB BA OBP SLG OPS BP> BP#
600 171 20 27 40 .285 .330 .453 .783 19 9
[/code:1:101cf9411d]

My take is that people are discounting the power of the ball park single and its effect on production. Admidtly the above examples are simpified, but I believe the correctly reflect the way stats are affected by ballpark effects

[BC Manager]

YF, one flaw in your logic: the player in the Murph's BA and OBP will go up (as compared to if he was in a 0/0 park) because the additional home runs are also points on his BA and OBP. You will notice this if you compare the performances of a 200x player in a HR park vs. a pitching park (if the singles rating is about the same) -- not only will his HR's be higher in the HR park, but so will his BA and OBP, because of the extra HR's.

In our current debate, it's a little more complicated -- the Murph player's BA and OBP is helped by the extra HR's but is hurt by the lack of BP singles. Meanwhile the Fenway player's BA and OBP is helped by the BP singles, but also reduced by the lower BP HR factor. It's too simplistic to say the BP effects on BA are opposite for Murph and Fenway. They both effect BA/OBP in different ways (and both in positive and negative ways).

[YountFan]

My calculations were off because I did not include the HR in the Hits column. This give the JM player 12 more hits and F player 7. This makes the OPS a virtual tie, but it is what you expect. Higher average and OBP at F and more SLG at JM

Thanks for finding my error

[quote:c9cc8cb817]It's too simplistic to say the BP effects on BA are opposite for Murph and Fenway.[/quote:c9cc8cb817]I agree with that, They are just different. There is also a compounding effect that I don't know how to factor in. In Fenway the increased BA and OBP will turn over the batting order more and give a player more at bats. At JM the same happens for HR, but I don't know if the differece between them is significant. I just ain't that smart.

It does look that all and all we can call the BP efects a wash and go with Albert's selection of Bell. Both he and McReynolds had great seasons and deserve the award, but Albert is our committee of sport writers and he/they selected Bell. And so it should be....and is

[YountFan]

http://forums-beta.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=82859

[BC Manager]

Actually, with all due respect to Albert's selections, which I think tend to be well thought out, I've never regarded his post-season award choices as the last word. The awards can be voted on by anyone who chooses to vote after the season (unfortunately many of the 12 choose not to submit selections, I guess wanting to move onto next season).

The contentiousness of the debate around this award is unprecedented. For that reason I'm going to post a tie between Bell and McReynolds, unless there's a resolution of the debate.

[BC Manager]

BTW YF, thank you for your accumulated Decade League stats! Having these records is a real bonus for this league. I love how they're presented, too -- I feel like I'm reading a real MLB guide or abstract. It's a shame it's difficult to capture partial seasons, as this seems to be the one thing missing.

Way to go YF!

[seanreflex]

YF,

thanks for the analysis on Fenway and the Murph. I give Sykes credit; I don't think Murph is an easy stadium to win in at all. I've had 12 teams in Fenway Park, plus 3 active teams in Fenway. My combined winning pct in Fenway is .530 (IF I EXCLUDE MY FIRST EVER TEAM THAT LOST 119 GAMES, STILL A RECORD). My overall winning pct is .483 (I KNOW, I SUCK).

I've had 4 teams in the Murph; only one had a winning record, and my pitching was horrendous. Hats off to you Sykes.

BC, I still think, in spite of the numbers of K-Mac and Bell, that Jimmy Key's numbers are more impressive than either hitter.

HOW ABOUT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE 80'S !!!! WOOOO HOOOO BERNIE !!!

[albert2b]

YF, interesting analysis. One thing occurred to me after I read it. If the ROY race wasn't between two sluggers like Bell and McReynolds and instead was between two singles hitters who steal lots of bases like, for example, Willie McGee and Brett Butler, I would've given the award to the player playing in the Murph instead. It's obvious that the BP HR at the Murph would be a non-factor when dealing with the likes of McGee and Butler....and the BP singles would give whoever''s playing at Fenway a big advantage in that department. But since we're talking about a couple of HR hitters like Bell and K-Mac, I just thought the BP HRs by far outweighs the BP singles.....however debatable that may be.

And BC, I've always said that my selections are just that....MY selections. By no means are they the "end-of-discussion" selections that the league must abide by. In fact, I've always encouraged others to post their selections so we could have a REAL concensus of who should be given these honors.....but apparently, I'm the only one in this league w/o a life :) Anyway, it looks like by Monday, we won't have to worry about who's selecting these things. By next season, if anyone has a problem with a snub, TAKE IT UP WITH HAL :P :)