Jeff Bagwell

[TXBuddy]

Being from Houston and being an Astro fan I know I look at Jeff Bagwell different than most fans around the country. The Official Jeff Bagwell Hall of Fame web site has launched ( www.jeffbagwell.com ) and I'm curious to see what type of posts the real baseball fans (Strat Players) have to say.

[Detroit-Tigers]

Uh Jeff isn't Hall of Famer material.

leads the Houston franchise with 449 career home runs...ranks 28th all-time, three away from 27th-place Carl Yastrzemski...ranks second in club history with 2,314 hits.
leads the Houston franchise with 31 career multi-homer games.
joins Frank Thomas and Cal Ripken as the only players since 1972 to hit 400 or more home runs while playing their entire careers with the same team...the Astros are 265-150 (.639) all-time when he homers.
one of only 10 players and the only first baseman with 400 home runs and 200 stolen bases in his career...only of six 1B with 300+HR and 100+SB...one six 1B with 1500+ and 1500+ runs scored in a career...one of just four Major Leaguers with 300 HR and 150 SB since 1995 (Bonds, A. Rodriguez, Guerrero).
recorded career hit No. 2,300 on 4/17 at CIN.
streak of 12 consecutive seasons with 20 or more home runs ended.
started on Opening Day at first baseman, his 15th consecutive year as the club's Opening Day 1B...teams with Craig Biggio to form the active leaders in pro sports in teammate tenure with 15 seasons.

Good, but not HoF. Its nice he was with the same team and all, but 449 HRs and 202 SB is a little light IMO.

[bleacher_creature]

Look at the list of HOF 1B's. Does he belong in this group? Tough call IMO:

[url=http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&1B.htm]Hall of Fame First Basemen[/url]

[cirills]

[quote:fd0a024a67]Does he belong in this group?[/quote:fd0a024a67]

Um, yeah. Especially since Tony Perez is in "this" group".

Here is how Bags and TP stack up stat for stat and this does not even include the most lopsided one (one the Hall doesn't list on their website -- OBA). Besides the extra number of games and thus AB's it's not even close.

Sorry,[b:fd0a024a67][i:fd0a024a67] but any Hall that has a Tony Perez MUST have a Jeff Bagwell.[/i:fd0a024a67][/b:fd0a024a67]

Player-gms-AB's-runs--#hits-2bs-3bs-HRs-rbi's-walks-ko's-sb's-avg-slug
Perez 2777 9778 1272 2732 505 79 379 1652 0925 1867 049 .279 .463
JBags 2150 7797 1517 2314 488 32 449 1529 1401 1558 202 .297 .540

[Detroit-Tigers]

If the HoF was static I would agree- but times have changed. Just because someone else got into the hall doesn;t mean they would get in today. Looking at Jeff compared to other 1Bs of his era, I am not sure he stacks up. There is a conversation- but a short one.

Besides stats, when I ask whether a guy is HoF or not, I ask- would I have wanted him in the first round in a multiyear keeper league.

Bonds- Yes
A Rod- Yes
Pedro Martinez- Yes
Mariano Rivera- Yes
Ken Griffey Junior- Yes

J Bagwell- well he is about the same as Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, etc... I would rather have Pujols.

[cirills]

So DT, let me understand if I get your argument. Only ONE guy from an ERA at a position can go in. Or you would only want one guy in your keeper league?

So yes to Willie Mays but NO to Mickey Mantle?

Yes to Ted Williams but NO to Stan Musial?

Yes to Pujols but NO to Helton?


The question was did Bags belong with the previously mentioned group and the answer was YES, if Tony Perez is part of that group!

And I'd take Frank Thomas' great years right there with what Pujols is doing now btw. Injuries might have curtailed him more in recent years compared to Bags but they were two of the best of their generation.

BTW, isn't it ironic that they were born on the [b:016fbe35d1][i:016fbe35d1]same exact day in the same exact year!!![/i:016fbe35d1][/b:016fbe35d1]

I find that to be [b:016fbe35d1][i:016fbe35d1]La Forza del Destino[/i:016fbe35d1][/b:016fbe35d1]! :wink:

[Detroit-Tigers]

Nah- I am just saying in a USKL type draft, who would go first round?

Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Ted Williams
Stan Musial

All of them would go. Pujols- definately, Helton- yeah I think he would too. So it doesn't matter the position (because 2 people of the same position could get taken first round).

Do you really think Bagwell should get in or are you just pissed at Tony Perez? (Who is he anyways?)

Bagwell is on the line for me (only because he had steals and HRs), but because he is a 1B I would say no.

[cirills]

[quote:b156faef79]Do you really think Bagwell should get in or are you just pissed at Tony Perez? (Who is he anyways?)
[/quote:b156faef79]

YES

YES

and OMIGOSH I feel old now ...

TP was the long time First basemen of the Reds during the Big Red Machine years and then performed the same trick with Pete Rose and Joe Morgan on Philly in 1980. He was considered to be a great RBI man who once had a string of consecutive 100 RBI years.

He came before Sabremetrics would have showed than almost anyone that hit behind Rose, Morgan (and Bench) would have driven in 100 RBI a year. His OBA and SLG (and thus his OPS) were very pedestrian for the 1B position.

[genegrid]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bagweje01.shtml


His HOF indicator is very good according to this link.