wondering why...

[STUARTHOLCOMB]

wes parker is $5.13M and billy williams is $3.29M. :?:
i haven't bought a team yet or looked at the cards, but from pure number. i don't get it.

[edbazo]

A good part of it is defense. A small part of it is probably the ballpark that each played in; Wrigley was a better hitters park, so Williams' stats are slightly discounted. The salaries are based on the cards, not on the years statistics.

[The Last Druid]

One of the problems with this set is it is not super advanced. Therefore the ballpark effects are uniform for all players. Williams is then not hurt by playing in Wrigley. Check it out, the #'s are all 1-8 for everyone. Thus the park effects are not taken into account in the player cards the way they are with superadvanced sets. That's why I voted for 1961.

[DOUGGRAY]

Please explain?

I see ballparks with many different ballpark effects and I count BPHs being different on player cards. I dont see anything different here AND the code to play the game is the same code used for 2005.

[childsmwc]

Wes Parker has to be priced based on his defense at 1B and since he won the Gold Glove there in 1969 it adds value to his card. Billy Williams on the other hand as a 3e13 in LF is probably below average defensively even for this set.

Now does the difference in defense justify the cost is all a matter of how much you value defense in the strat game. The other thing to consider is how much is Wes Parker priced in a similar range of 1B versus Billy Williams in a similar group of LF. There might be some position differences. So the real question is if you had $10 mil to spend would you have a better 1B/LF combo by taking Williams and a 1B with the remaining cash or Parker and a LF with the remaining cash.

Its really hard to compare players accross different positions, especially when one is an exceptional defender.

Bbrool

[Rob55]

69 wasn't a super advanced season...but then 61 isn't either. But the cards have been changed for the 69 season to reflect the super advanced rules....clutch, ball park effects etc.

if you BUY the 69 season from SOM..... the cards will look nothing like the cards in this TSN version.

[harry lime]

Here's the breakdown from the Cd help section.

[quote:29615c26aa]PAST SEASON FEATURES

Since we are constantly improving our game not all disks contain the same features. However all seasons may be played against one another by shutting off any options not common to both teams. The 1920, 1927, 1934, 1941, 1954, 1959, 1960, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1975, 1978, and 1989-present past season disks are rated for full Super-Advanced play including all standard statistics plus lefty/righty stats, separate range, error and throwing arm ratings on defense, speed, individual balk, wild pitch and passed ball ratings, double plays hit into, ballpark effects, weather effects, clutch hitting factors, etc. Pitchers are rated in an equally detailed manner. The 1985-1988 seasons have all of the above listed features except for individual balk, wild pitch, passed ball ratings and weather effects. The 1930, 1950, 1956, 1961, 1962, 1968-1974, 1976, 1977, and 1979-1984 seasons have all listed features except individual balk, wild pitch, passed ball ratings and Ballpark, Clutch and Weather effects. In addition to the above listed features our 1992-Present season disks rate players for their actual tendencies to pull the ball, and how often they hit it in the air or on the ground. Pitchers from these seasons are rated to perform as flyball pitchers or groundball pitchers and how often they induce the double play groundball. And the 1934, 1954, 1960, 1964, 1967 and 1992-Present seasons rate pitchers individually for base-running and bunting, and rate relief pitcher's effectiveness with a "closer rating".[/quote:29615c26aa]

Now obviously they made some changes to the '69 game for this TSN version.

I have the '69 set on CD and the cards are very different. Not just little minor details like clutch etc., but the rolls are all different on just about every card I've looked at.

As far as the 1-8 split on all BP hr's-- it doesn't matter --if we are using the BP effects (which i assume we are) then that roll is over-rided to the BP split of the park you are playing in.

At least that'as how i understand it. And I will admit I find SOM's whole system very confusing. Maybe one of the beta testers or evnen Bernie himself could chime in here.

[The Last Druid]

The 1969 set we are using is deeply flawed. The hr issue is huge, also no gba's on pitchers cards.

To address the home run issue, look at Killebrew. His home park, Metropolitan 1969, is basically a homer 20 prk. If his card were to reflect that, his regular (non #) hr chances would be much less than they are on the card we will be using. [b:48b705ec23]What Strat did was take a season where ballpark effects are not figured into the cards and simply grafted the park effects on to the cards for TSN without changing the base hr chances on the cards to reflect this.[/b:48b705ec23] If they did, there would not be the standard 1-8 chance on every player in the leagues ballpark hr chances.

To illustrate look at Ripper Collins's ATGII card against righties. A lot of his power that year was due to the park he played in. Thus his 'advanced' game hr's against righties are 1-4, 1-5 (1-14) 1-6 and 1-1(1-10). So in the 'advanced' game he has 11.3/108 chances for a homerun result against righthanders. In the super advanced game (that year was a super advanced set of cards so the real ballpark effects are used when playing the superadvanced game) he has 5.8 hrs. without ballpark effects. If you play him in Polo he gets (all 8 of the # are hrs) 13.8 chances for a hr in the super-advanced game. If he plays in Busch 87 he gets .25 x 8 or 2.0 ballpark hrs added to his base 5.8 for a total of 7.8 hr chances in the superadvanced game. If Collins's card was from an advanced set and not superadvanced (and Strat did what they did with 1969 to 'convert' to superadvanced) he would have the same base 11.3 hrs [b:48b705ec23]PLUS[/b:48b705ec23] the 8#'s with 1-8 splits were then grafted on. So you see, this would make Collins a much better hitter than he actually was that year. And that is what we have with Killebrew in the 1969 set. Conversely the
Baltimore players, for example, get screwed in the current 1969 cards, at least the ones with power.

So in the case of Killebrew, the 1969 season card we will be using was calculated for advanced play and the ballpark hr's were then tacked on to the card as the standard 1-8 to convert to superadvanced. In reality Killebrew's #'s should probably be 1-20 for his home games and the league average for the away games which for arguments sake let us say is a 1-10. Thus his 8#'s should be splits of hr 1-15, flyout the rest. The net result is that Killebrew ends up with almost 2 extra homerun chances on his 1969 card than he should have. If you were to do a season replay with his card in Metropolitan 69 he probably would have 60+ hrs. not the 49 he hit.

But it really doesn't matter to Richman. He gets his windfall profits -- at our expense -- without doing the work to make 1969 a real superadvanced season. What we have is a grafted superadvanced season which is a poor imitation of the real thing. What is really funny is that they took the trouble to tack on some closer ratings only to not use them. :roll:

Next time we get a season offered to us, please choose one that was set up for superadvanced. Hell, the gba thing on the pitcher cards alone is huge.

[childsmwc]

Petrosian,

Interesting Observation, but the math doesn't add up. In the case of Killebrew if I try to recreate his actual 1969 stats then he has 6.25 hr chances vs. lefties and 7.25 vs. righties filtered through his percentage of 66% ab's versus righties gives me a weighted average of 6.91. Add to this 8 BP HR's at a 75% chance rate you get 12.91 HR chances out of 216 PA's (total probability of rolling the 3 dice).

This ratio would only produce 42 HR's over 700 PA's. The average pitcher he faces would have to give up atleast 2.3 HR's on their card for him to reach his average (don't know what this real number would be).

If you do a similar analysis on Frank Howard and assume his home games are in RFK you will get a similar HR ratio to Killebrews, so the cards have in fact been normalized for stadium effects, although they may not be a "true" super advanced card set looking at the odd 1-8 characteristics you pointed out.

Bbrool

[The Last Druid]

Bbrool, I realized something similiar just before you posted. Yes, the alternative hypothesis is that Strat went into each players card, adjusted the 'advanced' base hr's to reflect their intent of adding the #'s as 1-8. Seems like a lot of work, why not just have the ballpark #'s reflect the actual park played in rather than the 1-8 standard.

Easy to tell. Does anyone have a 1969 advanced Killebrew paper card?