Where is that thread about bad pitching decisions- look here

[Detroit-Tigers]

http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/2006/league/boxscore.html?group_id=501&g_id=310

Ok- so wouldn't Hal replace my RH specialist after say, 2-3 runs? Hal leaves him in for 11 runs!

[bleacher_creature]

HAL would only do this if he were so far out of options that he gave up on your team in this particular game.

Feel free to link the team, but I'll bet $2 right now you are only carrying 10 pitchers.

[JOELKING]

Tiger,
I dont feel sorry for you one bit, after beating me up. to bad hal doesnt do that in our league we are in together :)

[Essex Moosemen]

whatd'ya expect from a guy named Putz? :wink:

[franky35]

I had a similar problem. I have 11 pitchers. Game 145, starter goes 7 full innings and Jack Aker called in to pitch the 8th and 9th, collecting the loss. This was a very bad decision since he is my 2nd worst pitcher and is set to avoid lefties, quick hook. Aker is a R3.

Game 146. http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/stratomatic/1969/league/boxscore.html?group_id=3282&g_id=872
I jump out to an 8-0 lead, but my starter gets injured in the 3rd. HAL brings in Aker. Incredibly, with a fully rested bullpen, Aker is kept in for 4 innings giving up 3 walks, 11 hits and 12 earned runs. I lose the game.

What is that?

[bernieh]

franky35: You're not being entirely fair here. Here is your entire pitching staff and the reasons why you didn't have an available "fully rested bullpen."

Ron Reed: started the game
Wally Bunker: in the rotation
John Gelnar: still tired after pitching Game 144
Pat Jarvis: in the rotation
Luis Tiant: in the rotation, no relief rating
Ken Brett: no relief rating, still tired after pitching Game 143
Diego Segui: your Setup [i:4f2c362733]and[/i:4f2c362733] Closer vs. R
Wilbur Wood: Avoid using before 7th inning
Pat Dobson: your Setup [i:4f2c362733]and[/i:4f2c362733] Closer vs. L
Jack Aker: [b:4f2c362733]the only arm fully available[/b:4f2c362733]
Al Worthington: Avoid using before 9th inning

While a human manager such as you or I would have bended the rules a little bit to deal with the unfortunate injury to the starter, the computer acted well within what is expected of it, given the instructions it was given. I find that most complaints about situations where the bullpen is allegedly "fully rested" are actually cases like this, where the manager's settings dictate otherwise.

That said, your example does effectively raise the suggestion that the manager settings be 1) clarified and/or 2) made more flexible. With my extensive recent work with the computer code, I've uncovered things like the "Avoid using before 9th inning" control means literally NEVER use before the 9th inning. For now, I believe the wording should be changed to "Never" for clarification, and for the future, maybe an expanded option should be introduced to "Avoid unless necessary".

Thanks for your example. I'm still committed to making your managerial control as easy to understand and as powerful as possible.

(Detroit-Tigers, I'll look at your example next)

[franky35]

Wow!
Bernie, that is great customer service. Better than my managing. I fixed my settings so that a better pitcher will take over in earlier innings.
It is interesting with the settings I had that Aker pitched so few innings during the year.
Thanks.

[Detroit-Tigers]

Bernie is the man. I have already listed half a dozen examples in his other thread.

I am sure you are doing everything you can. My ask is this:

1) Can you improve it (even make simple)
2) Can you tell us how it works

[Semper Gumby]

Bernie,

Here is one for you - League: NLD 13 (User ID: 1839)

Why does HAL pull my starters in a DH league when my settings are "conservative relief" and most of my SPs are "slow hook" except for my cheap SPs?

It is not as if changing a SP will cause my pitching ball park team to score more runs.

While I haven't lost too many games where HAL made questionable pitching changes, I nor many other humans would have made the same change given the cards at play. If anything, I want [b:f3a726fede]Pedro[/b:f3a726fede], [b:f3a726fede]Peavy[/b:f3a726fede], and [b:f3a726fede]Prior[/b:f3a726fede] to toss as many innings as possible so when I do want HAL to insert [b:f3a726fede]Billy Wagner[/b:f3a726fede] -[i:f3a726fede]Wagner[/i:f3a726fede] isn't tired or overused.



[b:f3a726fede]Game 40[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
M.Prior 6 1/3 2 1 1 1 7 0 90 2.79
D.Riske LOSS(5-2) BS(2nd) 0 1/3 2 3 3 0 0 0 18 6.30
S.Hasegawa 2 1/3 1 0 0 1 1 0 47 7.11[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 60[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]D.Haren 4 1/3 3 1 0 1 5 0 82 4.20
T.Mulholland 1 2/3 1 0 0 0 1 0 24 0.00
D.Riske 0 1/3 1 0 0 0 0 0 8 6.67
C.Politte 1 2/3 1 0 0 2 1 0 28 2.66
B.Wagner 3 0 0 0 1 5 0 42 1.98
J.Peavy LOSS(5-7) 1 1/3 2 2 2 1 1 1 29 4.49
Totals 12 1/3 8 3 2 5 13 1

RiverHawks06 IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
Z.Duke 11 4 1 0 5 7 0 155 4.29[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 25[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]P.Martinez 7 2/3 3 2 2 0 2 1 101 1.14
B.Wagner WIN(1-0) BS(2nd) 2 1/3 2 1 1 1 2 1 39 1.84
C.Politte HOLD(2nd) 0 1/3 1 0 0 0 1 0 6 3.38
C.Hammond HOLD(2nd) 0 1/3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 5.68
D.Riske SAVE(2nd) 0 1/3 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4.38[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 45[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez LOSS(4-5) 6 2/3 6 3 3 1 6 0 107 1.78
C.Politte 1 1/3 1 0 0 0 1 0 26 2.86[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 49[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez LOSS(4-6) 4 1/3 6 2 1 0 1 0 67 1.79
D.Riske 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 25 7.40
C.Politte 2 2/3 0 0 0 1 3 0 31 2.48[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 53[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez WIN(5-6) 8 1 0 0 3 8 0 109 1.66
B.Wagner SAVE(11th) 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 12 1.62
Totals 9 1 0 0 3 10 0[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 9[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez WIN(2-0) 8 3 0 0 1 11 0 107 0.00
B.Wagner SAVE(1st) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 3.60[/code:1:f3a726fede]


BUT HAL will let Pedro pitch 10+ innings?

[b:f3a726fede]Game 13 [/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez LOSS(2-1) 11 7 1 1 0 12 1 146 0.25[/code:1:f3a726fede]


[b:f3a726fede]Game 33[/b:f3a726fede]

[code:1:f3a726fede]Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
P.Martinez 10 2/3 8 1 1 3 6 1 165 1.37
B.Wagner 2 1/3 0 0 0 1 0 0 31 1.45
C.Politte WIN(2-1) 3 1 0 0 0 4 0 36 2.88
D.Riske 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 6 3.72
S.Hasegawa SAVE(1st) 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 14 0.00[/code:1:f3a726fede]


And, don't get me started on HAL's usage of Billy Wagner. I had a streak of games where HAL yanked Wagner after facing one or two batters only to put a cheap RP in Wagner's place. Again, my settings have been "conservative" and "slow hook" since the opening series.

[Semper Gumby]

Okay, I'm getting beyond frustrated with the game engine logic for pitching -

HAL has no qualms about yanking Pedro early but he'll keep Cliff Lee in the game -

[code:1:f9ead1d33f]United IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
B.Colon WIN(9-5) 6 12 1 1 0 4 1 107 2.66
H.Street HOLD(5th) 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 32 3.46
F.Rodriguez 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 4.09
Totals 9 13 1 1 0 4 1

Jarheads IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
C.Lee LOSS(1-3) 9 10 5 5 0 6 3 147 4.71
Totals 9 10 5 5 0 6 3[/code:1:f9ead1d33f]


Lee's individual settings are IBB Less / Quick Hook.


And, please also review the pitching logic in the 80s engine too - here is the most recent version of "Why HAL?"

[code:1:f9ead1d33f]Devil Dogs IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
J.Reuss 7 7 3 3 0 6 1 105 2.05
D.Bair LOSS(3-3) 1 2 1 1 3 1 0 37 3.69
W.Hernandez 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 5 1.50
Totals 8 10 4 4 3 7 1[/code:1:f9ead1d33f]


Reuss' settings are SLOW HOOK / IBB Less and you can see from his ERA after 45 games - he has a decent card at work here.

I've grown from amused to the end of my SOM rope. I've documented more and more of these instances (80s version is harder since we rarely know the card). It appears HAL loves to play havoc with the pitching and merely enters the game without any consistent patterns.

If you can't program the pitching logic using the manager / individual settings, why bother offer them. :x