Has 2006 killed off the "Old Guard"??

[LMBombers]

Bottom Line for me is that no matter what the cards look like, no matter what the cards are priced at, I am going to play and enjoy this game. I love this game and will play it as long as it is available. There will always be strategy involved no matter what J-Pav says. There is an almost infinite amount of combinations of players, stadiums, lineups, etc. that can be played. Finding the successful combinations is what makes this game fun. You may even find a successful combination in one league. If you played the exact same team in another league there might be a manager that has found an even better combination that will beat you. The distribution of stadiums in the league may also contribute to more or less success than your previous team. So even if you duplicate your team in a second league and have the exact same rolls of the dice throughout the season you will not have the same record due to the amount of variables of the other 11 teams.

SOM rules!

[MICHAELTARBELL]

Sure, it is nice to win. But what I really enjoy about this game is the freindships that develop thru the leagues. How many times do you find yourself cheering for your buddy when you are doing poorly, or visa versa?

I love getting up in the morning, pouring a cup of coffee, and checking my scores. Some mornings i am elated, others i am disappointed, but always I enjoy it, and look forward to the next morning when I can do it all over again, and to the next time i build and draft a team, and fine tune it after waivers. Just LOVE that!

Having fun..am I lucky or good?? Probably a little bit of both, but as the old saying goes "I'd rather be lucky than good"!!

my .02 :wink: :)

[msheaf1]

I (Martin from the old boards) have never played the 200X games as much as ATG but I think the thing that has driven me away more than anything is HAL. I am sick and tired of trying to play games with settings to get Hal to do something right with a pen. When I mark a guy as mop-up I don't expect him to come in to pitch the ninth in a one run game in game ONE of the season (I had it happen). I am finding myself playing more at whatif then here now (just avoid open leagues there and play themes though :lol: ). I just entered my second 2006 team and that is only because it was picked for June in the Theme of the Month leauge.

[ROBERTVOZZA]

On this, one of the best threads I have seen in awhile - Thanks AT, for posting something we can all sink their teeth into...

There have been many great posts here - Especially those by Fatty(durantjerry, J-PAV, Splinter and Jerlins - not to mention everyone else's - which are all valid.)

I have been around since May of 02'...So I definitely have both an old perspective as well as a new one. I play very much like Splinter and Jeep...I played the game as a kid in the mid 60's and again in the early 80's before discovering the cyber version 4+ YRS AGO...I am just a good card reader - Definitely not the mathemetician's or Prob and Stat geniuses that J-Pav, Lucky or JaserD are...Nor do I use Joe The Jet - which would take all the fun out of it for me...But i do not fault anyone who does. No matter how good their records may be.

I have never had the time nor financial availability to play with more than 2-4 teams simultaneously or more than 10-15 teams per year. So I have limited my play to Vets Leagues(LOTO and JaserD) with 2-3 Leagues as warmups for those 2.

Some points of my own:

1. Every year has been totally different - And I am greatful for that...Altho I am a change resistant person by nature, I really have enjoyed the improvements that have been made each year.

I have always enjoyed the challenges of discovering the great card values and placing them higher on my list which sets an entire new set of options down the line. I believe they are still out there. But I am not mentioning them until I see their names on the lists - then I will agree. Which brings up my next point - which has been addressed.

2. Playing your cards closer to the vest - I used to post a lot about strategy and enjoyed the interaction. I no longer share my gems early on - Mostly because it gets so difficult to get them and I don't have the time to play in a lot of leagues to make the adjustments. And like everyone else - I like winning...

However, I do have 2 views on using the info experienced players offer. A. I think it is great to be able to learn from other people's experience and apply it. but, B. I cannot stand when people literally allow someone else to do all the work for them. ie. the Qksilver concept mentioned... I think it is still important for new players to learn from the experience of playing and getting their butt handed to them a little - PAYING at least some dues before they become superstars overnite on somebody elses labor - But that is just an opinion. I am very OLD SCHOOL.

I have never minded mentoring new players that respect the game and many of them will mention it occasionally...But i have always done it privately and usually in leagues we are in during play - when it is easiest to point things out. Then of course, not being a lucky person - they usually come back to stomp me the rest of the season and forevermore. :lol:

3. I love the older Vets...Which I have become such good buds with over the years...But I also love all the newer players who have such a love and respect for the game and their intense competitive spirit and willingness to learn how to be very good at this...And without mentioning names, I believe they know who they are - because I have invited most of them to play in The LOTO INVITATIONAL that I create every year. ..Which brings me to my next point...Which Cummings2 touched upon...

4. I believe there are a couple of factors that have caused some players to play less or not at all...1. BOREDOM - There are players out there that have had hundreds of teams and after you win OR lose that much and have burned out an experiance or have come up with a FORMULA for winning in each season...

How many times can you do the same thing over and over again before some type of mental stagnation sets in. And Bragging rights in STRAT are great, but how great are they compared to the REAL stage called life? I mean it isn't the same as winning the NCAA Basketball Tournament, or knocking out Mike Tyson in his prime, or winning an Academy Award or the Nobel Prize etc etc...And I am only speaking for myself, but I always wonder if this ever crosses anyone elses mind.

2. Back to the subject of REAL LIFE - the other factor that I believe has a bit to do with less play is the fact that we are living in extremely difficult times - Struggling economy, perhaps having children overseas fighting a war, Political unrest and the one single most difficult REAL LIFE factor - Relationships - with wives or significant others. You have to admit, a lot has changed in our world since 2002. The reason I mention this point is because I have the privledge of communicating with a large portion of the SOM community in Private - when I am putting the LOTO TOUR together and the single biggest factor for players declining is having less time for our wonderful distraction here - due to REAL LIFE interfereing with it.

So in addition to what has already been mentioned. Those are 2 factors I wanted to add.

In closing, I must state that venturing out last year and playing in Leagues with a lot of newer players has added a newfound enjoyment to the game for me...Players like Cummings, Stoney, Jerlins, JD Early, gjtjeff, Maligned, charlie and a whole crop of other incredibly witty intelligent and extremely competitive players(No offense to anyone not mentioned as I just did this off the top of my head and the post is way too long alreeady) have really enhanced the quality of play IMO and created renewed interest in the game...I neither have no problem with parity, being thoroughly beaten by skilled newbies, nor with the changes in the game - which are still welcome.

I enjoyed the "OLD GAME" and the "OLD GUARD" and everything that went with those experiences. And I will miss the participation of players mentioned in my Favorite Tournament...But I don't feel that it will detract from the enjoyment of going toe to toe with players old and new.

Just some opinions from an "OLD DOG" trying to learn some NEW TRICKS... :wink: :lol:

Robert(Aka Swpsychic)

[J-Pav]

[b:ded4cc251e]Robert:[/b:ded4cc251e]

Thx for the post. Maybe sometime before March 07 we'll get LOTO B filled.

[b:ded4cc251e]LM:[/b:ded4cc251e]

[color=darkblue:ded4cc251e]There will always be strategy involved no matter what J-Pav says.[/color:ded4cc251e]

Where do you get this stuff? Why don't you come join the discussion in the [i:ded4cc251e]Skill or Chance?[/i:ded4cc251e] thread, as we're on the verge of solving the question. Bring something to the table. I hope you're just confrontational and your family doesn't love your older brother more than you or something, causing you to post things like this.

But glad to see you hustled into LOTO B. The four no shows are making me forget who I drafted already.

[LMBombers]

[quote:2a93facb43="J-Pav"]I hope you're just confrontational and your family doesn't love your older brother more than you or something...[/quote:2a93facb43]

Why are you turning this into a personal thing?

It seems you must always have the last word and have to "defend" yourself if someone has a differing opinion.

Anyway, I wave the white flag and wish to surrender. The debate is no longer fun to me when it turns personal.

[ROBERTVOZZA]

I can see that the LOTO B League is going to be fun ... :wink: :lol:

[J-Pav]

[b:675c7062f9]LM:[/b:675c7062f9]

Agreed. I'll call it off on my end too.

But in response, no, I like the differing opinions. What I don't like is someone stating my opinion out of context in a way that attributes my words with something I'm not saying.

Skill or Chance was started to generate discussion on what defines skill in this game, as wins are harder to come by for [u:675c7062f9]everybody[/u:675c7062f9].

I let this one:

[color=darkblue:675c7062f9]I don't know J-Pav's stats in 06 vs 05 or earlier but I would guess he is not doing as well as in the past and is trying to find reasons to convince himself that it can't just be his managerial skills. Why else would he start such a thread?[/color:675c7062f9]

and a few others slide, because I don't know you and a sense of humor can get blurry in posted forums. If you're calling me out, fine. If you're kidding around, fine. But I was playing nice, keeping my fingers off the keyboard, while you were obviously throwing some jabs.

I'll tone it down from here though.

[ROBERTVOZZA]

Altho I am as fiercely competitive as the next guy(Anyone who knows me and has ever played any sport against me - knows that I don't mind the ferocity of brutal competition with anyone - On the Field or Court...But once we step outside the lines, it is all respect from then on.

I think communication on a computer without a live person on the other end, who you have to look in the eye, while either being sarcastically humorous, or tongue in cheek or just a bit ornery from your day or Life situatiuon, can definitely cause unintended miscommunication at times.

Believe me I have my days - just ask ETdefender, a longtime Strat friend, who i have blasted after too many drinks a few times. Fortunately he has a very thick skin like myself and is able to handle my over the top, occasional, immature moods. But I always apologize and explain, so I don't totally misrepresent myself and get in so deep that it becomes too difficult to get out of.

I have always found that quick, simple apologies always seem to get the job done easily in miscommunication situations - and oftentimes, cause me to really find a great respect for my peers without a face here.

So, again...Thanks for being bigger than our egos AND thanks for playing in the LOTO TOUR as well. :wink: Robert

[ANDREWLAITURI]

Never fear folks, us 'old guard' are still here. We may not post as much as we used to but we're still here by and large.

I've said it before but it bears saying again here, I and many others have been here since Strat online first started running games online and I believe many of us are still here. Some have lost their luster for the forums due in part to the issues Rob raised. Real life and percieved personal slights here in the forums has definately taken it's toll.
It does take a thick skin at times to stay on here and it's tough at times to understand when a fellow manager is being serious or just being sarcastic.


I have a feeling though that alot of us 'old guard' are still here.