Bass... sticking with the business analogy...
There's clearly a difference between...
1.) "quid pro quo" amongst a business and a customer base
- your examples
- loyalty rewards programs
- frequent buyer discounts
- and so on...
vs.
2.) agreements BETWEEN competitors that reduce competition
- antitrust actions
- market domination
- price gauging
- and so on
Number 1 is acceptable, Number 2 is not
My personal opinion... the issue at hand with the type of trade suggested is more similar/analagous to number 2... where other competitors are hurt by the collusive action of two or more. My two cents.
Collusion: Please Comment
by Proverbial Psalms » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:44 pm
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by harry lime » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:48 pm
[quote:fe33d83c8d]I love to trade myself[/quote:fe33d83c8d]
Tim-- what did you get for yourself?
Tim-- what did you get for yourself?
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by BassballJG » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:53 pm
[quote:852b968eda="wjanssen"]Bass... sticking with the business analogy...
There's clearly a difference between...
1.) "quid pro quo" amongst a business and a customer base
- your examples
- loyalty rewards programs
- frequent buyer discounts
- and so on...
vs.
2.) agreements BETWEEN competitors that reduce competition
- antitrust actions
- market domination
- price gauging
- and so on
Number 1 is acceptable, Number 2 is not
My personal opinion... the issue at hand with the type of trade suggested is more similar/analagous to number 2... where other competitors are hurt by the collusive action of two or more. My two cents.[/quote:852b968eda]
Ok, of course I totally get the difference between example groups a and b. I guess what I'm asking is how does this fit into example group b. I'm a proudly ethical businessman, so I'm a little surprised at myself for not seeing this as clearly as y'all.
Look at it this way: If I'm in last place and have Stargell, and I get 3 offetrs from contenders around game 138 just before the deadline, am I wrong to either 1, take an offer and then ask that manager in the future for a deal when our roles are reversed when we will both have knowledge of the "favor" I have done him or 2, if I took the offer for Stargell from a manager with whom I have made deals in the past which were helpful to me? Assume a non-$200m league and equal salary exchange.
There's clearly a difference between...
1.) "quid pro quo" amongst a business and a customer base
- your examples
- loyalty rewards programs
- frequent buyer discounts
- and so on...
vs.
2.) agreements BETWEEN competitors that reduce competition
- antitrust actions
- market domination
- price gauging
- and so on
Number 1 is acceptable, Number 2 is not
My personal opinion... the issue at hand with the type of trade suggested is more similar/analagous to number 2... where other competitors are hurt by the collusive action of two or more. My two cents.[/quote:852b968eda]
Ok, of course I totally get the difference between example groups a and b. I guess what I'm asking is how does this fit into example group b. I'm a proudly ethical businessman, so I'm a little surprised at myself for not seeing this as clearly as y'all.
Look at it this way: If I'm in last place and have Stargell, and I get 3 offetrs from contenders around game 138 just before the deadline, am I wrong to either 1, take an offer and then ask that manager in the future for a deal when our roles are reversed when we will both have knowledge of the "favor" I have done him or 2, if I took the offer for Stargell from a manager with whom I have made deals in the past which were helpful to me? Assume a non-$200m league and equal salary exchange.
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by Millercorps » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:18 pm
It depends on the situation. If you are in a $200 mil league and you offer the last place team 3 - .50 mil guys for Hornsby, Ruth, and Pete Alexander so you then become unstopable and turn around and promise to do the same thing for the other team in a different league. That becomes a serious problem. I'm not saying that was offered I'm just using it as an example. That then screws 10 other players out of having a good shot at winning in two seperate leagues.
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by Treyomo » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:31 pm
[quote:6c62fefd0d="harry lime"][quote:6c62fefd0d]I love to trade myself[/quote:6c62fefd0d]
Tim-- what did you get for yourself?[/quote:6c62fefd0d]
I offered him Andres and Gaylord Perry, and he jumped at that offer.
Tim-- what did you get for yourself?[/quote:6c62fefd0d]
I offered him Andres and Gaylord Perry, and he jumped at that offer.
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by BassballJG » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:34 pm
[quote:983482f9c4="Millercorps"]It depends on the situation. If you are in a $200 mil league and you offer the last place team 3 - .50 mil guys for Hornsby, Ruth, and Pete Alexander so you then become unstopable and turn around and promise to do the same thing for the other team in a different league. That becomes a serious problem. I'm not saying that was offered I'm just using it as an example. That then screws 10 other players out of having a good shot at winning in two seperate leagues.[/quote:983482f9c4]
Clearly an extreme example here, but I'm starting to get it, it's like a politician letting an inflated, no-bid contract for a kickback.
Clearly an extreme example here, but I'm starting to get it, it's like a politician letting an inflated, no-bid contract for a kickback.
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by Valen » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:34 pm
BassballJG, how about this business analogy.
You own a pair of texaco stations in 2 different cities, say Dallas and Fort Worth. I own an exxon station on a corner opposite you in each city. Someone I know owns a conoco station on the same corners in the 2 cities. So I talk to him and say you help me in Dallas and I will help you in Fort Worth. So in Dallas he cuts his prices in half to drive you out of business and in Fort Worth I cut my prices in half to drive you out of business there. I end up with successful station in Dallas and he winds up with a successful station in Fort Worth. You wind up out of business in both cities and go home bankrupt.
Sound fair and ethical?
You own a pair of texaco stations in 2 different cities, say Dallas and Fort Worth. I own an exxon station on a corner opposite you in each city. Someone I know owns a conoco station on the same corners in the 2 cities. So I talk to him and say you help me in Dallas and I will help you in Fort Worth. So in Dallas he cuts his prices in half to drive you out of business and in Fort Worth I cut my prices in half to drive you out of business there. I end up with successful station in Dallas and he winds up with a successful station in Fort Worth. You wind up out of business in both cities and go home bankrupt.
Sound fair and ethical?
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by BassballJG » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:40 pm
[quote:09901f98af="Valen"]BassballJG, how about this business analogy.
You own a pair of texaco stations in 2 different cities, say Dallas and Fort Worth. I own an exxon station on a corner opposite you in each city. Someone I know owns a conoco station on the same corners in the 2 cities. So I talk to him and say you help me in Dallas and I will help you in Fort Worth. So in Dallas he cuts his prices in half to drive you out of business and in Fort Worth I cut my prices in half to drive you out of business there. I end up with successful station in Dallas and he winds up with a successful station in Fort Worth. You wind up out of business in both cities and go home bankrupt.
Sound fair and ethical?[/quote:09901f98af]
No, clearly not at all. For the record, I was never actually defending the deal offer, just trying to understand why everybody immediately saw the problem and I didn't based on the description given.
You own a pair of texaco stations in 2 different cities, say Dallas and Fort Worth. I own an exxon station on a corner opposite you in each city. Someone I know owns a conoco station on the same corners in the 2 cities. So I talk to him and say you help me in Dallas and I will help you in Fort Worth. So in Dallas he cuts his prices in half to drive you out of business and in Fort Worth I cut my prices in half to drive you out of business there. I end up with successful station in Dallas and he winds up with a successful station in Fort Worth. You wind up out of business in both cities and go home bankrupt.
Sound fair and ethical?[/quote:09901f98af]
No, clearly not at all. For the record, I was never actually defending the deal offer, just trying to understand why everybody immediately saw the problem and I didn't based on the description given.
Last edited by BassballJG on Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by The Last Druid » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:43 pm
What if the other manager is Bruce the Moose and we are watching a variant of Fight Club unfold?
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