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Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 30

http://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=797

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Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:38 am
by lakeviewdave
jflatour99 wrote:PROPOSED RULE CHANGE

During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES
lakeviewdave - YES

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:45 am
by jflatour99
During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES
lakeviewdave - YES
willmurr - YES

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:06 pm
by oldmansmith2
Gonna vote yes on this cause it's better than no lottery but I've got a question. Will tanking still be tolerated? Cause if it is, teams that are willing to do it will just be incentivized to tank to get in the lottery if they're in the middle of the pack. Terry will recall what happened in his "those were the days" league. From day one tanking was happening. It was my 1st keeper league and after watching this for the first 3 years I figured it was accepted behavior and tanked myself in Trout's draft year. A manager who had taken over a team that year saw this and threatened to go to strat management to get the offenders suspended since tanking is clearly outlawed under the fair play policy. Rightfully so in my opinion. We put in a lottery and haven't had a problem with it since. But that may be at least partly because it seems everyone has committed to not tanking going forward in that league. Anyways hope that's what happens in this league.

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:07 pm
by oldmansmith2
During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES
lakeviewdave - YES
willmurr - YES
oldmansmith - YES

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:22 pm
by ironwill1
During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES
lakeviewdave - YES
willmurr - YES
oldmansmith - YES
Ironwill - YES, but I hope I don't deserve the first pick due to non-tanking reasons.

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:08 pm
by tcochran
bump

PROPOSED RULE CHANGE

During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES
lakeviewdave - YES
willmurr - YES
oldmansmith - YES
Ironwill - YES, but I hope I don't deserve the first pick due to non-tanking reasons.

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:45 pm
by kihoover
tcochran wrote:A number of leagues have seen an increase in managers' tanking; i.e., limiting their talent on the field in order to improve their future draft positions. For example, one team in this league has not played Freeman, Lemahieu, or Betts all season.

This is permitted under the rules of this league, but still feels somehow inappropriate,

10) There are no specific rules against "roster dumping." Owners no longer in a pennant race can use their best judgment in determining the makeup of their team, provided that all general roster size limits are met. However, it is expected that all owners will act in the best interests of the game.

I wonder if we should update the rules such that the first 4 picks in every free agent or supplemental draft shall be determined by lottery?



Do you mean every team has a chance for the first 4 picks or just the teams with the 4 worst records from the previous season?

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:30 pm
by Denorien
jflatour99 wrote:PROPOSED RULE CHANGE

During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES


A moderately common occurrence in our league is the trading of 'top' draft picks to teams with their own picks near the bottom of the draft. I am not particularly concerned with this. But...

I'd like to know the motivation behind this draft rule change. What are we trying to stop, limit, or control? Roster dumping is a known and legal tactic in the real life professional leagues. We just saw the NBA Nets trade Irving and Durant right up against the deadline. That Irving requested a trade (and maybe Durant did too after Irving left) is immaterial.

Why do we want this change? What does it accomplish for the league and managers?

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:52 am
by lakeviewdave
Denorien wrote:
jflatour99 wrote:PROPOSED RULE CHANGE

During the 1st round of any annual free agent draft or supplemental draft, the draft order of the first 4 picks will be determined by lottery.

tcochran - YES
jflatour99 - YES


A moderately common occurrence in our league is the trading of 'top' draft picks to teams with their own picks near the bottom of the draft. I am not particularly concerned with this. But...

I'd like to know the motivation behind this draft rule change. What are we trying to stop, limit, or control? Roster dumping is a known and legal tactic in the real life professional leagues. We just saw the NBA Nets trade Irving and Durant right up against the deadline. That Irving requested a trade (and maybe Durant did too after Irving left) is immaterial.

Why do we want this change? What does it accomplish for the league and managers?


Since Terry couldn't call me out directly. I'll address this, and how appropriate to discuss a rule change after 75% of this year is completed, and to start until 2024 once he knew the likely order of the first couple of picks, but doesn't matter personally to me, I like the lottery idea myself and wouldn'thave change how my team was constructed. He does not believe in tanking, but all of us have done this in one form or another, trading good players away near trade deadline for pieces for the following year or not taking best player available in FA draft is a form of tanking as well. I decided to build for next year with every move I have made and in season 2 put team together that would give me best chance for best draft position next year. What has happened in other leagues should have bearing on this league regarding rules, etc. If we are to play to win all 162 games then most of my moves would not have been made. I'm playing win championships not games. I'll do whatever league decides on how it wants to run.

In regards to fair play policy, I have not changed my roster this season, so this doesn't even apply.

Re: Summer - Winter Keeper League - SEASON 27

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:53 am
by tcochran
kihoover wrote:
tcochran wrote:A number of leagues have seen an increase in managers' tanking; i.e., limiting their talent on the field in order to improve their future draft positions. For example, one team in this league has not played Freeman, Lemahieu, or Betts all season.

This is permitted under the rules of this league, but still feels somehow inappropriate,

10) There are no specific rules against "roster dumping." Owners no longer in a pennant race can use their best judgment in determining the makeup of their team, provided that all general roster size limits are met. However, it is expected that all owners will act in the best interests of the game.

I wonder if we should update the rules such that the first 4 picks in every free agent or supplemental draft shall be determined by lottery?



Do you mean every team has a chance for the first 4 picks or just the teams with the 4 worst records from the previous season?


The 4 teams with the worst win/loss records get the first 4 picks. With this rule change, in the 1st round only, a lottery would determine the sequence of picks #1 through 4.