"THOSE WERE THE DAYS" LEAGUE

Everyone's points are well taken here on willmurr's roster issue.

The thing is, we have to do something to help him field a LEGAL roster. Whether it was intentional or not is immaterial at this point. Also, we can be pretty sure it wasn't intentional because none of this is helping his team to a championship this year or in a future year.

We should NOT allow anyone to snipe Neshek from him, however. He has to dump a future commodity (Neshek or someone else) for a crummy RP after the entire draft is resolved. That gives an unfair advantage to whoever makes that trade.

He messed up...we all do it sometimes...not a big deal...just don't do it again.

Actually, it's even simpler than that. I just looked at wilmurr's roster and found:
13 position players, so needs one more
15 pitchers, including 3 not carded
Reasonable mix of SP/RP, and at least 2 catchers

So, simple answer?
Drop Jamie Wright, RP taken in round 7
Replace with hitter
Going to 14 hitters and 11 active pitchers

Eh voila!

Also, still waiting on baseballmike to remove his team from East Div, so that JMP1 can load his team there.

IM and email sent last night.

Grudzalaniek is uncarded so I think 2 players will have to be dropped.

Actually, it's even simpler than that. I just looked at wilmurr's roster and found:
13 position players, so needs one more
15 pitchers, including 3 not carded
Reasonable mix of SP/RP, and at least 2 catchers

So, simple answer?
Drop Jamie Wright, RP taken in round 7
Replace with hitter
Going to 14 hitters and 11 active pitchers

Eh voila!

It's actually not quite that simple, although it's still not too bad. While it seems like a reasonable mix of sp/rp, he only actually has 3 pure relievers in '09: Ayala, Springer, and Wright. So dropping Wright only makes things worse. And Grudzielanek is among his 13 rostered hitters, so he does need to do the Grudzielanek for Erstad switch. He should also do a McGowen for either Helms or Fields switch, which really just corrects his drops list so he's not actually gaining any advantage. (If he had dropped Grudzielanek and McGowen instead of Erstad and Helms,he wouldn't be having this roster issue, but it really wouldn't have made much difference in terms of the quality of his team or the rest of the league or anything. Does not seem like a big deal at all in the case to essentially let him change his drops in order to have a legal roster.)

And then he needs to drop either 1 starter or non carded guy (Vasquez or Logan) and add a pure reliever in '09. Again, this doesn't seem to give anyone an unfair advantage, or affect anyone else in the slightest. It's just making a necessary correction.

I say we let Wilmurr drop Owings and Grudzalaniek who are crap and pick 2 batters at the end of the draft. That way he doesn't affect anyone else's pick, he's got enough to draft his team and someone like Neshek who does have some value in the future isn't available unless he trades him or decides to drop him next year.

While it seems like a reasonable mix of sp/rp, he only actually has 3 pure relievers in '09: Ayala, Springer, and Wright. So dropping Wright only makes things worse. And Grudzielanek is among his 13 rostered hitters, so he does need to do the Grudzielanek for Erstad switch. He should also do a McGowen for either Helms or Fields switch, which really just corrects his drops list so he's not actually gaining any advantage. (If he had dropped Grudzielanek and McGowen instead of Erstad and Helms,he wouldn't be having this roster issue, but it really wouldn't have made much difference in terms of the quality of his team or the rest of the league or anything. Does not seem like a big deal at all in the case to essentially let him change his drops in order to have a legal roster.)
And then he needs to drop either 1 starter or non carded guy (Vasquez or Logan) and add a pure reliever in '09. Again, this doesn't seem to give anyone an unfair advantage, or affect anyone else in the slightest. It's just making a necessary correction.

I do NOT agree with this. These guys were some of his keepers from 2008 and he MUST keep them. We went through this same thing last year with ironwill1, who ended up bailing on us anyway. We agreed then, that we won't allow that to happen again!

...I can offer in a trade Neshek no 2009 card but a good future for anyones worst RP only

I completely disagree with this as well. No trades at this point to make the roster compliant. As padrenurgle1 pointed out, too much of a potential advantage to his trading partner.

The fairest and simplest thing for Wilmurr to do is to drop players from this current FA draft, in reverse order of pickup, 2009 non-carded players first, as needed to make his roster legal. So Nick Evans goes first if it works. Wright would be next except if he worsens the problem, so he then drops Chen, and so on. If you're concerned about others feasting on the players he drops, declare them off limits for our league in 2009.

So the final result would be that he drops Bruce Chen to pick up the second coming of Darin Erstad. And if we want we declare Chen to be off limits in 2009, but I don't think that's necessary because he's not exactly going to sway the balance of power.

do whatever you want ,wake me up when the team is set

I say we let Wilmurr drop Owings and Grudzalaniek who are crap and pick 2 batters at the end of the draft. That way he doesn't affect anyone else's pick, he's got enough to draft his team and someone like Neshek who does have some value in the future isn't available unless he trades him or decides to drop him next year.

While it seems like a reasonable mix of sp/rp, he only actually has 3 pure relievers in '09: Ayala, Springer, and Wright. So dropping Wright only makes things worse. And Grudzielanek is among his 13 rostered hitters, so he does need to do the Grudzielanek for Erstad switch. He should also do a McGowen for either Helms or Fields switch, which really just corrects his drops list so he's not actually gaining any advantage. (If he had dropped Grudzielanek and McGowen instead of Erstad and Helms,he wouldn't be having this roster issue, but it really wouldn't have made much difference in terms of the quality of his team or the rest of the league or anything. Does not seem like a big deal at all in the case to essentially let him change his drops in order to have a legal roster.)
And then he needs to drop either 1 starter or non carded guy (Vasquez or Logan) and add a pure reliever in '09. Again, this doesn't seem to give anyone an unfair advantage, or affect anyone else in the slightest. It's just making a necessary correction.

I do NOT agree with this. These guys were some of his keepers from 2008 and he MUST keep them. We went through this same thing last year with ironwill1, who ended up bailing on us anyway. We agreed then, that we won't allow that to happen again!

...I can offer in a trade Neshek no 2009 card but a good future for anyones worst RP only

I completely disagree with this as well. No trades at this point to make the roster compliant. Too much of a potential advantage to his trading partner.

I don't really get this. No one had an issues last week when Willmurr got Neshek in a trade in order to help make the champ compliant. Why is it an issue now?

The fairest and simplest thing for Wilmurr to do is to drop players from this current FA draft, in reverse order of pickup, 2009 non-carded players first, as needed to make his roster legal. So Nick Evans goes first if it works. Wright would be next except if he worsens the problem, so he then drops Chen, and so on. If you're concerned about others feasting on the players he drops, declare them off limits for our league in 2009.

All due respect Falcon, but your solution is neither fair nor simple. Looking at his picks in reverse order, you've got : Evans, Wright, Chen, Vasquez, Valbuena, Molina, Cecil, Price. He needs to drop 3 players and he's already short on position players and pure relievers, so he needs to keep Evans and Wright. So you drop Chen and Vasquez but then he needs Valbuena and Molina. So you drop Cecil, which means, you've stripped him of two of the few useful pieces he has going forward. Why? Not to mention that while neither of them is a star by any means, Cecil and Chen both would have been selected by somebody else in this draft. So it's unfair to everyone else that those two are now free agents for next year and not in the league. Now you're forcing Willmurr to take 2 crappy hitters that he's just going to drop next year anyway while two useful pitchers get pushed into next year's draft for no reason. This is your fair solution? It doesn't make sense. I get that people think he should be "punished" for making a mistake, but it makes no sense to weaken his team even further. Terry wanted to prevent Willmurr from picking a useless guy in Vasquez, but now you want to prevent him from keeping two useful guys. I don't get it.

The real problem was that he kept too many uncarded players. He didn't draft any uncarded guys, so changing his draft picks doesn't really help. He needs to get rid of the uncarded guys one way or the other. His original drops were : SEAN CASEY JOSH FIELD WES HELMS MIKE TIMLIN RAY DURHAM DARIN ERSTAD BILLY SADLER. ANDREW BROWN

So again, the simplest and fairest solution is to just let him change his drops so that his keepers include 3 crappy carded guys instead of 3 crappy uncarded guys. This is a totally different situation from ironwill last year so I really can't understand why anyone sees this as a big deal. And while ironwill did break the rules, he didn't make the playoffs the guys he picked up in waivers were not huge difference makers in terms of unfairly keeping them off another team. Willmurr is not getting extra drops in order to gain an advantage over everyone else. He's just changing his drops and it's a one time thing, not something that people are going to try to do going forward.

EDIT: This was written at same time as Dr.P's post, with similar content

Thanks to Dr.P for the catch on Grudzielanek -- in taking another look, I also see there are 4 uncarded pitchers, not 3. So this means that the original drop list was faulty. A 28-player team can only have a max of 3 uncarded players and still be eligible to load 25.

CARDED
12 position players, including at least 2 catchers
11 pitchers, including 3 "pure" RP
2 more position players needed

UNCARDED
Grudzielanek
Logan
McGowan
Neshek
Westbrook

I propose that willmurr
- keep all 23 of his carded players
- correct his drops by letting go of 2 of the 5 uncarded ones
- bring back 2 position players who were dropped inappropriately

I propose that willmurr
- keep all 23 of his carded players
- correct his drops by letting go of 2 of the 5 uncarded ones
- bring back 2 position players who were dropped inappropriately

I can live with this. It's as fair as anything else. As long as he has a dropped player who makes his autodraft roster legal of course.