Online game costs too much

There have been (at least) three arguments going on in this thread:

1. Does it makes economic sense for SOM to charge such a "high" price? I have argued that I believe it does, and we don't have the information necessary to argue otherwise.

2. Can SOM justify its "high" price? I have argued that their are significant costs to provide its service that some arguments have seemed to ignore.

Of course, the biggest argument has been...

3. Is SOM a good value? This is subjective. If someone says SOM online is not a good value for them, they are correct--then again, maybe not! (read on)

In addition the the fun the game creates, there is additional value provided that might be overlooked:

1. Matchmaking services. If I could find 11 managers who lived in my area, I might simply just buy the CD-ROM game.

2. Time saved. Then again, even if I had 11 local managers, I might still play the online game because it plays the games for me. It let's me enjoy seeing a season unfold even when I get busy with other things in my life. It let's me enjoy watching a full season even if I don't have time to play one.

3. Reliability. If I have 11 local managers, the league has to deal with vacations, illness, conflicts, and managers who start to lose interest. This is not a problem with SOM online; the games go on every night whether or not someone is available or simply drops out.

4. Backup manager. It is very rare that I don't check in daily, but it's nice to know I can. If I have an emergency, I'm not letting down 11 other guys if I can't get online.

5. Anticipation. If you ever had a team really take off, you found yourself thinking about this team even when you're not at your computer. Then there is the excitement of anticipating a key series that will determine whether you make the playoffs.

6. Flexibility. I have about 22 hours in the day that I can check in and make changes for any given night.

Consider these things before you dismiss the game's value to yourself!

Excellent examples. But, as I've shown before, if value were entirely subjective (and it's not), nobody could ever be "incorrect" (even "to yourself") in their value judgments...all value judgments would be correct. Since objective facts would now be irrelevant, one could not legitimately correct or debunk those judgments--of others or of their own--with any objective facts...such as "matchmaking services" or time.

This is the most interesting thread i have participated in and i would like to thank everyone so far who has participated with me in it

Coyote always makes good points and does so again. I am of the opnion that the more control i have over my team, even up to being able to play the game myself, but i realize that others are not of this opinion. They like the minimum of time it takes each day to participate in strat. All the things that make live games and leagues so burdensome is removed. No scheduling no worrying on drop outs etc does not happen with online strat.

Wouldnt it be awesome if you could do both. Play live games, join live leagues, do live drafts etc along side the more automated version that online strat is now. Now that would be excellent

Scott.

This is the most interesting thread i have participated in and i would like to thank everyone so far who has participated with me in it

Coyote always makes good points and does so again. I am of the opnion that the more control i have over my team, even up to being able to play the game myself, but i realize that others are not of this opinion. They like the minimum of time it takes each day to participate in strat. All the things that make live games and leagues so burdensome is removed. No scheduling no worrying on drop outs etc does not happen with online strat.

Wouldnt it be awesome if you could do both. Play live games, join live leagues, do live drafts etc along side the more automated version that online strat is now. Now that would be excellent

Scott.

I agree with that! One of my constant complaints is why can't we connect to netplay through a lobby on the strat website? I am in a lot of cdrom leagues, and quite a few guys I know cannot host netplay due to some kind of port forwarding issue which apparently you have to be a tech to figure out!

I agree with that! One of my constant complaints is why can't we connect to netplay through a lobby on the strat website? I am in a lot of cdrom leagues, and quite a few guys I know cannot host netplay due to some kind of port forwarding issue which apparently you have to be a tech to figure out!

That has always been a sticking point for me as well.

Scott.

There have been (at least) three arguments going on in this thread:

1. Does it makes economic sense for SOM to charge such a "high" price? I have argued that I believe it does, and we don't have the information necessary to argue otherwise.

2. Can SOM justify its "high" price? I have argued that their are significant costs to provide its service that some arguments have seemed to ignore.

Of course, the biggest argument has been...

3. Is SOM a good value? This is subjective. If someone says SOM online is not a good value for them, they are correct--then again, maybe not! (read on)

In addition the the fun the game creates, there is additional value provided that might be overlooked:

1. Matchmaking services. If I could find 11 managers who lived in my area, I might simply just buy the CD-ROM game.

2. Time saved. Then again, even if I had 11 local managers, I might still play the online game because it plays the games for me. It let's me enjoy seeing a season unfold even when I get busy with other things in my life. It let's me enjoy watching a full season even if I don't have time to play one.

3. Reliability. If I have 11 local managers, the league has to deal with vacations, illness, conflicts, and managers who start to lose interest. This is not a problem with SOM online; the games go on every night whether or not someone is available or simply drops out.

4. Backup manager. It is very rare that I don't check in daily, but it's nice to know I can. If I have an emergency, I'm not letting down 11 other guys if I can't get online.

5. Anticipation. If you ever had a team really take off, you found yourself thinking about this team even when you're not at your computer. Then there is the excitement of anticipating a key series that will determine whether you make the playoffs.

6. Flexibility. I have about 22 hours in the day that I can check in and make changes for any given night.

Consider these things before you dismiss the game's value to yourself!

Here are some questions and counterpoints as well:

Answer to #1 - I have come to the understanding that when Strat left (or got booted from) TSN, the number of participants shrunk and continues to shrink. Perhaps it was because the price was raised, or the service lowered? Im not sure as I never played when strat was on TSN. My understanding is that were thousands on the TSN site and now only a couple hundred here?

Answer to #2 - Do you think strat could make a go of the game room, live and auto play upgrade to strat, I have mentioned in some other posts (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=635813) ]to get back those users who left after departing from TSN? I wonder if we have any computer gurus here in the forum that could give me us a ballpark figure of the cost of servers and infrastructure for such a thing if 500, 1000, 5000 users were on it regularly?

Answer to #3: I think this is one of the most attractive features of online strat for most players, that and it seems the shortness of time needed to commit to have a season played.

Answer to #4 - Again a great feature to online strat.

Answer to #5 - I personally think that comes with the game itself, in all versions.

Answer to #6 - Smart phones have made online strat portable since all you need to to is adjust options rather than playing the game itself which would be kinda difficult with such a small screen.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

Scott.

"Answer to #1 - I have come to the understanding that when Strat left (or got booted from) TSN, the number of participants shrunk and continues to shrink. Perhaps it was because the price was raised, or the service lowered? Im not sure as I never played when strat was on TSN. My understanding is that were thousands on the TSN site and now only a couple hundred here?"

I think this statement is hyperbole on a fairly high order. Doubt there were ever thousands playing on the TSN site. The fact that there are more and more options now contributes to lower league filling. The price at TSN was $25. The price dropped to $20 when Strat took over.

I have come to the understanding that when Strat left (or got booted from) TSN, the number of participants shrunk and continues to shrink. Perhaps it was because the price was raised, or the service lowered?

Actually, SOM lowered the price from $25 per team. However, the transition did not go smoothly. There were some significant technical problems and poor communication. We used to have Bernie who kept up informed and engaged with the community. Since their rough start, things have improved, most issues were addressed, and some cool improvements were added.

Today communication is still weak, and it's unforgivable there are still no manager ratings or statistics.* However, despite this, we have a better product and for lower cost than when TSN ran the show. It would be a rude awakening if we had to go back to the old TSN site; there are some great changes that we take for granted now.

*I play duplicate bridge that has "master points," which is a system similar to SOM's manager ratings. If the American Contract Bridge League quit tracking master points for a period of time, it would kill the organization. I don't think SOM realizes the impact this missing feature is hurting the game.

First of all, there are many more league options for a player than there were when many of us (including myself) started. At the beginning there was just Strat; now we have 60's league, 70's league, 80's league, 90's league, 1986 league, 1999 league, all the unleashed leagues, ATG V, ATG VI, ATG VI NL only...and I think you get the point. With all these league options, of course, individual leagues are going to take longer to fill than they used to; all these league options are sapping up the players.

Andy, weeks earlier in this forum thread, I tried to explain--to those complaining SOM's "expensiveness" was driving away customers--that all the new options were slowing leagues filling. They simply ignored my factual point.

Yes i remember that I.strether. Now that i know what it was like in the before time it adds a better perspective to the present. I think i will change my mind on strat being too expensive now. But not that it would be a massive improvement if a graphics-based room participation and live and auto playing is available.

Scott.