Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Why is there not a "AVOID USING AFTER" option similar to the "AVOID USING BEFORE" in the Pitcher Preferences?

It reflects how Baseball is managed.
Gives the player more control over how S/R pitchers are used.
Would prevent the crazy instances, where in a tight game, a call goes down to the bullpen to get a pitcher with 40+ Get On and 15+ Extra Base on his card, and you end up hoping the hitter hits HIS OWN CARD !!


dgrish

dgrish wrote:Why is there not a "AVOID USING AFTER" option similar to the "AVOID USING BEFORE" in the Pitcher Preferences?

It reflects how Baseball is managed.

Managers don't usually (if ever) determine that any of their pitchers cannot enter a game after a particular inning...particularly since they have to anticipate extra-inning games, when even starters join the fray.

Can you give a recent example of a MLB manager managing his pitching staff that way?


P.s. I could see the appeal of--as well as the problems with--a "do not pitch in the 8th and/or 9th with a lead" function. It could, as I think you want, prevent lesser relievers from pitching in crucial late-inning situations. However, that would be an extremely specific function that SOM does not currently have. Also, the rigid restriction of that function (or a similar one) would also fail to reflect the way "baseball is managed," which you clearly value.

I am a bit puzzled, isn't this a common occurrence? If the SP gets into trouble in the 4th,5th, or 6th inning; the RP who starts warming up is very likely NOT (or seldom) used in the 8th or 9th innings of close games. Especially on teams where the Setup & Closer are clearly defined. And I do not see why such a setting would have to be so 'rigidly enforced' that it would disrupt how the current algorithms for bullpen fatigue & Individual RP overuse are applied.

Your suggestion to change the setting language to; 'Avoid using in 8th or 9th with lead", I would support as well.

dgrish

I am a bit puzzled, isn't this a common occurrence? If the SP gets into trouble in the 4th,5th, or 6th inning; the RP who starts warming up is very likely NOT (or seldom) used in the 8th or 9th innings of close games. Especially on teams where the Setup & Closer are clearly defined.

This is extremely different from deciding before the game that a pitcher won't be used after the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning. As I said before, that rarely if ever happens in MLB.

And I do not see why such a setting would have to be so 'rigidly enforced' that it would disrupt how the current algorithms for bullpen fatigue & Individual RP overuse are applied.

Even if SOM could make such an "Avoid using after 7th, 8th, 9th" setting flexible, that flexibility could counteract the very purpose of the setting. How would Hal know when to "break" the rules of the setting before a manager wants it to do so? If he (yes, Hal is a he) does do that, he unwantedly countermands the direct command of the manager. But if he waits too long, he also angers the manager who expects "flexibility." I think you see the problems, here.

Your suggestion to change the setting language to; 'Avoid using in 8th or 9th with lead", I would support as well

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Thanks, I think it would be the best and most feasible way to address your concerns.

Good luck in your leagues.

By my way of thinking this pitcher who gets used whenever needed from inning 1 through7 is labeled middle relief or mopup.
We have a mopup role. That pitcher listed as mopup should not enter game in late innings unless the pitcher(s) serving in the setup and closer roles is fatigued from being used in previous games or have pitched in current game and time to remove them.

Of course if goes extra innings it is all hands on deck time.

Valen wrote:We have a mopup role. That pitcher listed as mopup should not enter game in late innings unless the pitcher(s) serving in the setup and closer roles is fatigued from being used in previous games or have pitched in current game and time to remove them.

This would not be true if either team has a significant lead in the 7th-9ths, particularly when the reliever's team is substantially behind. Setup and closer functions wouldn't always apply here and pitchers designated "mop-up" could be and are used in the 7th-9th innings.

A "do not use in 7th-8th innings" function or functions could actually prevent pitchers from being used then, if not perfectly so.

My suggestion for an "avoid using after" (not DO NOT USE AFTER) was based on this simple observation:

Almost every Bullpen has pitchers who seldom - if ever - enter a game before the 8th & 9th innings. (isn't this the rationale for the 'avoid using before' option ?)

AND

They also have pitchers who seldom enter a tight game (+- 2) after the 6th or 7th innings. I simply wish to identify those ptichers and limit their use when other relievers are available.


dgrish

My suggestion for an "avoid using after" (not DO NOT USE AFTER) was based on this simple observation:

Almost every Bullpen has pitchers who seldom - if ever - enter a game before the 8th & 9th innings. (isn't this the rationale for the 'avoid using before' option ?)

Yes, every bullpen has "pitchers who seldom - if ever - enter a game before the 8th & 9th innings." That's why it makes sense to have an "avoid using before" function. No bullpen, however, has relievers who (as a rule) seldom - if ever - pitch after those innings. So there is no such rationale for an "avoid using after" function.

dgrish wrote:They also have pitchers who seldom enter a tight game (+- 2) after the 6th or 7th innings. I simply wish to identify those ptichers and limit their use when other relievers are available.

Yes, managers--when they can--keep certain relievers out of late regular innings in tight games. They do not however, decide before the game to "avoid" pitching certain healthy pitchers after certain innings, as your posited function would do. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, managers are always aware of the substantial possibility of extra-inning games where closers and mopup-men alike may need to appear.

In your last thread, you did propose a flexibility in the function to accommodate that need. However, I addressed the problem with having a flexible "avoid using after" function. It would anger managers by bringing in such designated pitchers at undesired times and by avoiding bringing them in when extra late innings required it:

l.strether wrote:Even if SOM could make such an "Avoid using after 7th, 8th, 9th" setting flexible, that flexibility could counteract the very purpose of the setting. How would Hal know when to "break" the rules of the setting before a manager wants it to do so? If he (yes, Hal is a he) does do that, he unwantedly countermands the direct command of the manager. But if he waits too long, he also angers the manager who expects "flexibility." I think you see the problems, here.

The best option to keep subpar relievers out of clutch late-inning situations is what I posited earlier: an "a do not pitch in the 8th or 9th w/lead" function, or a "do not pitch in save situation" function if HAL can determine save situations.