17.4 Card Add direction...

I'd go with the 2004 JD Drew, RF-2(-1), CF-3, 1R balance, better than 2001 and not a 15-game injury risk.

Heinie Zimmerman is a good card, his 3b rating is a 3e43, though. Also eligible at 1b-4e27. 1L Balance

Also I'm curious if anyone thinks we want what might be Hornsby's best hitting year?
This actually 'might' be the best card in the set instead of having maybe the 4th best currently.

Just putting it out there.

1925 BA.403 OBP.489 SLG.756 OPS 1.245

Not only probably his best card, but also a Triple Crown winner and the MVP. Should definitely be in the set.

Also I'm curious if anyone thinks we want what might be Hornsby's best hitting year?
This actually 'might' be the best card in the set instead of having maybe the 4th best currently.

Just putting it out there.

1925 BA.403 OBP.489 SLG.756 OPS 1.245

WAR and OPS+ say we already have his best offensive card, 1924, though is a 5R balance. 1925 does probably represent a little more power for Hornsby. He is a 2b-2e38 in 1925.

1. Chris Davis 6R 2013 card 1B OPS 1.004/6R Balance, 1b-2e16
Goose Goslin 1928 PA 526 BA .379 OBP .442 SLG .614 OPS 1.056 LF-3(+1)13, RF/CF-4(+1)13 1R balance
2. Zach Britton 2016 LHRP 4R/Tom House/Hong Chi Kuo/Aroldis Chapman
3. Harry Heilmann 1923 2L Balance, LF/RF-2(0)14, CF-3(0)14, 1b-3e16
4. Steve Howe LHRP 1991 7L/Tom House/Hong Chi Kuo/Aroldis Chapman
5. Duane Ward 1993/Adams
6. Matt Kemp 2011 BA .324 OBP .399 SLG.586 OPS.985 2L Balance, CF-1(-2)5
7. Chipper Jones 2007 3b 3e12 7R Balance, BA .337 OBP .425 SLG .604 OPS 1.029 3b-3e12, SS-4e48
8. Jose Bautista 2011 3B BA .302 OBP .447 SLG .608 OPS 1.055 RF-3(-3)9, 3b-3e14, 2L Balance
9. George Sisler 1922 1b OPS 1.061 BA .420 OBP .467 SLG .594, 2R Balance, 1b-1e18
10. Buck Ewing 1890 Catcher ABs 352 Avg. .338 OBP. 406 SLG. .545 E Balance, C-2(-3)16, 2b-4e71
OR 1893 ABs 500 Avg. .344 OBP .394 SLG .496 1R Balance, C-4(0)16, 1b-4e30, plays OF positions poorly
11. Cupid Childs 1894 2B PA 595 BA .353 OBP .475 SLG. 459 OPS .935/ 3R Balance, 2b-4e71
Hardy Richardson 1886 2B PA 584 BA .351 OBP .402 SLG .504 OPS .906, E Balance, 2b-3e65, 3b-4e65, SS-3e76, LF-2(-2)25
12. George Davis 1894 SS PA 566 BA. .352 OBP.434 SLG. .541 OPS .976 E Balance, Only carded at 3b-2e62
13. John McGraw 1899 3B BA .391 OBP .505 SLG .446 OPS .994 (better year by a fair bit) 1R Balance, 3b-3e41. IMO, this card would move McGraw into a stratosphere that I don't think his overall career deserves.
14. Heinie Zimmerman 1912 3b plus BA .372 OBP .418 SLG .579 OPS .989 1L Balance, 3b-3e43, 1b-4e27.
15. Bill Joyce 1894 3B PA459 AB355 BA .355 OBP .496 SLG .698 OPS 1.143 1R Balance, 3b-4e65

Maybe instead of the above: (ill add more)

2001 OR 2004 JD DREW-- anyone can see these cards please chime in.
2004 much better, RF-2(-1), CF-3, 1R balance, 2001 card has only 3oo-something AB's and isn't better than 2004
1895 Jack Clements C PA 355 BA .394 OBP .446 SLG .612 OPS 1.058 2R Balance, C-4(+2e)9
1889 Fred Carroll C PA 414 BA .330 OBP .486 SLG .484 OPS .970 1L Balance, C-4(+1)e16, 1b-3e28, LF-3(+2)e25

Thank you Andy for filling in the defensive ratings and balance-- and thank you GB/Bill etc for thoughts on Horns.
surprised at how poor a few of the early players rated -- very surprised that they are rated this way actually.
Think we should make adjustments to the list based on the same criteria that leaves those that are purely DHs as less desirable by a lot.

Yeah, I feel if these adds are to help high cap leagues, a lot of those guys would have no position they could play competently.

Still looking to make more changes-- Is the Bill Joyce card desirable still as strictly a DH for example? removed a couple of the early poor fielders b/c as noted as a DH they won't play much with those hitting stats, whereas a middle infielder would.
although it would be great to have more middle inf. Better to have a guy that will actually be worth something in the drafts rather than a fringe roster player imo.


1. Chris Davis 6R 2013 card 1B OPS 1.004/6R Balance, 1b-2e16
Goose Goslin 1928 PA 526 BA .379 OBP .442 SLG .614 OPS 1.056 LF-3(+1)13, RF/CF-4(+1)13 1R balance
2. Zach Britton 2016 LHRP 4R/Tom House/Hong Chi Kuo/Aroldis Chapman
3. Harry Heilmann 1923 2L Balance, LF/RF-2(0)14, CF-3(0)14, 1b-3e16
4. Steve Howe LHRP 1991 7L/Tom House/Hong Chi Kuo/Aroldis Chapman
5. Duane Ward 1993/Adams
6. Matt Kemp 2011 BA .324 OBP .399 SLG.586 OPS.985 2L Balance, CF-1(-2)5
7. Chipper Jones 2007 3b 3e12 7R Balance, BA .337 OBP .425 SLG .604 OPS 1.029 3b-3e12, SS-4e48
8. Jose Bautista 2011 3B BA .302 OBP .447 SLG .608 OPS 1.055 RF-3(-3)9, 3b-3e14, 2L Balance
9. George Sisler 1922 1b OPS 1.061 BA .420 OBP .467 SLG .594, 2R Balance, 1b-1e18
10. Buck Ewing 1890 Catcher ABs 352 Avg. .338 OBP. 406 SLG. .545 E Balance, C-2(-3)16, 2b-4e71
11. JD Drew 2004 much better, RF-2(-1), CF-3, 1R balance
12. Rogers Hornsby 1925 BA .403 OBP .489 SLG .576 OPS 1.245 2B-2 E 38
13. John McGraw 1899 3B BA .391 OBP .505 SLG .446 OPS .994 (better year by a fair bit) 1R Balance, 3b-3e41. IMO, this card would move McGraw into a stratosphere that I don't think his overall career deserves.
14. Heinie Zimmerman 1912 3b plus BA .372 OBP .418 SLG .579 OPS .989 1L Balance, 3b-3e43, 1b-4e27.
15. Bill Joyce 1894 3B PA459 AB355 BA .355 OBP .496 SLG .698 OPS 1.143 1R Balance, 3b-4e65

Id probably change in Clements for someone since he can at least be used in the field and hit a bunch.
1895 Jack Clements C PA 355 BA .394 OBP .446 SLG .612 OPS 1.058 2R Balance, C-4(+2e)9
1889 Fred Carroll C PA 414 BA .330 OBP .486 SLG .484 OPS .970 1L Balance, C-4(+1)e16, 1b-3e28, LF-3(+2)e25

Thank you Andy for filling in the defensive ratings and balance-- and thank you GB/Bill etc for thoughts on Horns.
surprised at how poor a few of the early players rated -- very surprised that they are rated this way actually.
Think we should make adjustments to the list based on the same criteria that leaves those that are purely DHs as less desirable by a lot.

Agreed. Based on the 3 e43 rating, I would certainly pull Zimmerman out of my 'top 5'.

absolutely BCNY--
based on where Hack Wilson gets drafted, am inclined to think bill joyce is still desirable.

2 earlier cards brought up by Rosie-- anyone have def info on these?
If they are 1s in the OF can see value there.
George Watkins, STL '30, 1.037 OPS, RF/1B
Harry Rice, SLB '25, 1.028 OPS, OF

George Watkins, STL '30, 1.037 OPS, RF/1B 5R Balance, 1b-4e25, LF/RF-3(-1)15, CF-4, 2b-4e41
Harry Rice, SLB '25, 1.028 OPS, OF 2(-3)13 at ALL OF positions, 1b-4e30, But also that pesky C-4(+5)38