Howell no HRs allowed in 112 innings pitched

http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/Comparisons_to_CD-ROM_Game

Maximum Rules are special rules found only in the computer game (Online and CD-ROM) which enhance the realism of Strat-O-Matic's simulation of baseball by addressing certain limitations that are inherent in a card-and-dice game. They do this by slightly altering the results normally obtained from the cards to improve things like out distribution, opportunities to take extra bases, and upholding extreme performances like Dennis Eckersley's giving up only 4 walks in 73.1 IP in 1990. Read more about the Maximum Rules.

Thanks for the link Marc, need to bookmark it!

There are two maximum rules in question here.

Improve Statistical Accuracy (i.e., normalization) is NOT used.

Correct Board Game Excesses IS used.

http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/Maximum_Rules

http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/Maximum ... e_Excesses

The rule in use (Correct Board Game Excesses) is one of the best maximum rules and has a place in the game. Without it, your super-strikeout pitchers wouldn't come close to having a realistic strikeout-to-IP ratio, and guys like Greg Maddux would walk too many hitters.

PS. I thought Improve Statistical Accuracy only eliminated things like triple chances for batters who never hit any, and that "normalization" was a myth. However, I can't find online a description of what "Improve Statistical Accuracy" does. Either way, according the the online SOM Wiki, it's not in use anyways.

OK, I stand corrected, and thanks coyote for pointing this out.

So normalizaton=improve stats accuracy is NOT used

Correct board game excesses IS used.

BTW I also found this information:

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/help/hittercard

Correct Board Game Excesses -- This improves overall statistical accuracy by adjusting for minor variances that cannot be accounted for in the board game. This improves the statistical accuracy of certain players who had extreme performances. For instance certain pitchers such as Greg Maddux allow very few walks. Using this will enable Maddux to duplicate his real-life dominance in this area. A number of categories are affected by this option including home runs, walks and strikeouts. Also pitchers hitting will be affected by using this, resulting in less walks and extra base hits by pitchers. (My bold)

But we still don't know how this correction is being done. My guess is that the computer reshuffles the dice, so a homerun can be lost and transformed into a lineout.

Actually, I had corrected Marc about Maximum Rules necessarily being in play, as well as his previous claim SOM wasn't normalizing, but that's cool:

SOM has been water-clear with regards to normalization, this option available on the online game that has the effect to increase statistical accuracy. It is NOT operating anymore. Many years ago, SOM was using this option but it put it off when controversy started mounting when people realized normalization was on. You can further see in the super-advanced setting on the wiki page affiliated with SOM that the option is checked off.

What's troublesome is he had claimed SOM was "water-clear with regards to normalization," which means SOM denied any form of normalization. If they are actually "correcting board game excesses"--in a mode of which he is unclear--to normalize results, they are still normalizing.

Someone might want to contact SOM about this. Unless Marc misunderstood their claim, they weren't exactly truthful on the matter. And if he doesn't know how or to what extent "the correction is being done," the degree of normalization here could be severe.

But we still don't know how this correction is being done. My guess is that the computer reshuffles the dice, so a homerun can be lost and transformed into a lineout.

Thanks Marc and Coyote, this is a really helpful thread.

About the rerolling/reshuffling, I read a clear explanation of this on SFF, I'll search for it tonight and will post it here if I can find it. My recollection is that the info was from an SOM source, that the dice did get re-rolled in the CDROM game. I will see if I can find it.

I'm not so sure how normalization was performed, other than knowing it was more about reducing probabilities of events rather than eliminating the possibility of events. So if a particular player had hit 15 hr in real-life 2001 season, and had already hit 15 at mid-season in the replay SOM online, he could still hit another one, but the probability of hitting a homerun was quite reduced.

But just to repeat: normalization doesn't happen anymore in the online game.

Marc was never quite sure how exactly the normalization was performed, but he was sure they were doing it. And--more importantly--he was sure SOM wasn't normalizing anymore. So, figuring out how they are still normalizing, if they are, is important. But what is more important is: Did SOM lie to Marc and the rest of SOM? Did Marc misunderstand SOM when they told him they weren't normalizing anymore? And, most importantly, is SOM still normalizing?

To me, "correct board game excesses" is not normalization, actually it's the opposite, call it "extremelization" (making extreme results possible). But I won't get into a semantics debate, and please please let me apologize if I mislead some of you.

What I meant by normalization is (to quote strat-o-matic website) "the process of moderating results when a player is approaching landmark statistics (such as hitting .400 or 70 home runs) late in the season". This is what was happening in the past (Bonds was one of the most affected players), and SOM has been water-cleared that this normalization is not being used anymore.

Correcting card board excesses is not used with this intention---it is not moderating current results based on past results. But it's definitively overriding typical results you would get if you were to play with cards and dice only. And yes, sadly for some folks here, SOM does use this option in the online game.

Also,

This doesn't say, though, that a regular SOM season is automatically set to these Maximum rules as default.

Correct, but if you follow the link I provided, it's clearly mentioned that SOM seasons are played with the "correct card board excesses" on (among other max rules).

Anyway, it's running late, I have to play softball!! Have a great evening folks!!!

To me, "correct board game excesses" is not normalization, actually it's the opposite, call it "extremelization" (making extreme results possible). But I won't get into a semantics debate, and please please let me apologize if I mislead some of you.

Of course it's normalization. By correcting board game excesses it seeks to normalize results. That's normalization by definition; so there's no need for a semantics debate. And no need to apologize. Everyone knows your intentions were good.

What I meant by normalization is (to quote strat-o-matic website) "the process of moderating results when a player is approaching landmark statistics (such as hitting .400 or 70 home runs) late in the season". This is what was happening in the past (Bonds was one of the most affected players), and SOM has been water-cleared that this normalization is not being used anymore.

This is exactly what another poster had complained about on another post, and you made it very clear that SOM wasn't normalizing anymore, period. So, you may have a different definition now, but you did not use that definition on that past thread.

Correcting card board excesses is not used with this intention---it is not moderating current results based on past results. But it's definitively overriding typical results you would get if you were to play with cards and dice only. And yes, sadly for some folks here, SOM does use this option in the online game.

Again, you didn't come close to saying this was what you meant by "normalization" on that other thread from which I quoted you. You didn't mention "correct card board excesses," you said "normalization," period...including the normalization mentioned by other posters which went beyond correcting board excesses.

And as you admit, it is "definitively overriding typical results you would get if you were to play with cards and dice only," which is--by definition--clear normalization. So, you shouldn't have just said SOM wasn't normalizing anymore, period. You should have made clear they were only doing this particular normalization you know of. That being said, I'm sure it was a mistake, and it's no problem. What is the problem, however, is SOM is still normalizing.

Also,

This doesn't say, though, that a regular SOM season is automatically set to these Maximum rules as default.

Correct, but if you follow the link I provided, it's clearly mentioned that SOM seasons are played with the "correct card board excesses" on (among other max rules).

That's irrelevant. You were making the claim SOM was playing by those Maximum rules by default, not "correct card excesses." So, I correctly pointed out you were wrong in suggesting SOM was playing by Maximum rules as default

Anyway, it's running late, I have to play softball!! Have a great evening folks!!!

Have an excellent softball game.

Marc's post dated Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:12 pm was excellent. He clearly spells out what normalization is (to all of us except you-know-who) and that it isn't being done anymore.

EDIT: I deleted most of my original post.

Marc's post dated Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:12 pm was excellent. He clearly spells out what normalization is (to all of us except you-know-who) and that it isn't being done anymore.

EDIT: I deleted most of my original post.

Firstly, Marc and Coyote don't get to "spell out" what normalization is; nobody does. We just get to give our definitions of it using the actual definition of it. That actual definition is: "the bringing (someone or something) back to a usual or expected state or condition." So, as I correctly pointed out to Marc, the correcting of board excesses is normalization. If anyone wants to counter that definition, they are free to do so.

Secondly, I correctly pointed out to Marc that he never specified such a process when he had said there was no normalization. He just said there was no normalization, period.. So, his revealing there was now a normalization process (inadvertently) contradicted that.

I'm not so sure how normalization was performed, other than knowing it was more about reducing probabilities of events rather than eliminating the possibility of events. So if a particular player had hit 15 hr in real-life 2001 season, and had already hit 15 at mid-season in the replay SOM online, he could still hit another one, but the probability of hitting a homerun was quite reduced.

But just to repeat: normalization doesn't happen anymore in the online game.

So, Coyote is just manufacturing conflict where there is none.