Greatest RH Starters/ Greatest Beatles Songs

Niekro didnt have the great winning % due to his teams...the Braves sucked...wins are largely based on the players around you. If Phil had one 1 more game a year in his 20 seasons with the Braves this discussion would not be taking place. I can promise you the Braves players of the 70's and 80's around Phil lost him more then 1 game a season.

Phil also played in the launching pad thus his era is slightly elevated

Of course Phil didnt have the control others did...he threw the most confounding pitch ever thrown...heck his C couldn't handle it 50% of the time.....but to say he did not intimidate batters is just not correct....hitters would show up to the games with "migraines" that day and have the manager take them out so as not to face Knucksie and F up their stroke for a week. Thats intimidation on a whole different level.

IMO...Drysdale is overrated.....had a very good career( very good 5-6 year run) on winning teams in a Hollywood town and dated beautiful ladies and got good press. IMO he is in the Doc Gooden/Jim Bunning/Jack Morris/Smoltz bracket .....tough winning pitchers who dont make the top 10

If you want spectacular strikeout numbers or a no-hiiter, Ryan's your guy. If you want the top RH SP, you grab Martinez, Seaver, Palmer or Gibson.

I agree with you, DurantJerry. That's why I did exactly that on my Top Ten list.

(Splinter): Niekro didnt have the great winning % due to his teams...the Braves sucked...wins are largely based on the players around you. If Phil had one 1 more game a year in his 20 seasons with the Braves this discussion would not be taking place. I can promise you the Braves players of the 70's and 80's around Phil lost him more then 1 game a season.

I didn't say anything about winning pct. in accurately showing that Roberts and Drysdale were better pitchers than Niekro. So, I don't know why you bring it up.

Phil also played in the launching pad thus his era is slightly elevated

You'd have to bring in actual park differentials to support how this substantially affected Niekro, as opposed to Roberts and Drysdale. Until then, Roberts and Drysdale still had better ERAs and better WHIPs than Niekro, which says a lot about them having been better pitchers than Niekro.

Of course Phil didnt have the control others did...he threw the most confounding pitch ever thrown...heck his C couldn't handle it 50% of the time

Whether or not Niekro mostly threw the knuckleball or mostly threw any other pitch is irrelevant; he still had substantially worse control than Drysdale and Roberts. He still walked those batters and those walks still hurt his team. It makes no sense to diminish them by saying "yeah, but he's a knuckleballer." That doesn't take away from his inferior control (to Roberts and Drysdale), and it doesn't take away from the damage his walks did to his teams.

but to say he did not intimidate batters is just not correct....hitters would show up to the games with "migraines" that day and have the manager take them out so as not to face Knucksie and F up their stroke for a week.

I never said Niekro didn't intimidate batters; please don't misrepresent my posts. I said Niekro never intimidated batters like Drysdale did, and he didn't. Drysdale was very big, threw hard, threw inside with alacrity, and batters were often terrified of him. Niekro's knuckler confounded batters; it confused batters; and it frustrated batters, but it rarely intimidated batters. Batters were never terrified, or even particularly afraid, of facing Niekro.

IMO...Drysdale is overrated.....had a very good career( very good 5-6 year run) on winning teams in a Hollywood town and dated beautiful ladies and got good press. IMO he is in the Doc Gooden/Jim Bunning/Jack Morris/Smoltz bracket .....tough winning pitchers who dont make the top 10

You can give your opinion that Drysdale was "overrated" all you want; It doesnt change the fact that he wasn't. I clearly showed you in my last post that Drysdale had a substantially better WHIP than Niekro, a much better ERA than Niekro, struck out many more per 9IP than Niekro, and had much better control than Niekro. So, he was a better pitcher than Niekro. So, if you think Drysdale is "overrated," you would have to think Niekro is even moreso...unless you are holding Drysdale's "beautiful ladies" against him...