Thoughts on new 2012 cards

I think it's all relative...everything you point out is accurate, but within context of $100M league they fall within the proper context of affordability. I don't know that it's quite fair to compare one year versus another, unless it's to demonstrate how the high-octane hitters now come at a higher premium because there production and/or defense combinations are not as common amongst the player sets as they once were.

Again - I think it depends on how you perceive an appropriate pay scale, relative to the game competitiveness (which I'd argue can be countered by increasing the league salary cap anyway).

Sounds right to me -Owners routinely massively overpay players. But, it's all relative. Not sure if it is fair to compare 20XX with ATG salaries. or a year by year compariosn.

superfly has a point on comparing 20xx and ATG pricing. Totally different animals.

how valuable is a guy like s johnson with the ability to relieve for 3 innings or start.
a lot of walks and gbxs on that card

Every pitcher has the same number of gbxs on their card unless the new set departs from tradition so that is irrelevant.
The walks might be a concern. The card is probably useless as a starter. For that money a guy needs to be more than an S5 because a good bullpen will become more important.

Now the R3 rating could make him a candidate for use as a super reliever if the walks are not a concern for you. But not sure if super reliever is as effective in 20xx with R3 as it is in ATG with an R5. Might solicit opinions from those who play 200x a lot more than I do these days but don't want to be the cause of this thread degrading in to a super reliever debate.

A number of people have commented about some cards such as Cano being unusable because of their extrememly unbalanced nature. But if that is the way the real life stats played out the card has to reflect that does it not?

So I assume those in the Cano not useable camp really just mean the extreme unbalanced nature of the card is not sufficiently taken in to account by the pricing formula.

McCutchen (Geekor - 8 xb hits vs RH's is PATHETIC for a $12.41m dollar player. See the ATG VII sets for examples)

AT7 and 2012 are priced differently. Each set is priced on it's own, and you cannot compare ATG7 to ANY single year set. If you do that, you're gonna have a bad time.

McCutchen still has 45 TB's, it's just mostly singles, which of course gives him more hit's and more OB. Would you rather have someone with 15 hits, 25 OB and 45 TB that is mostly HR and doubles? Vs RHP, McCutchen makes a great #1 or #2 hitter, but yes I agree he's overpriced.

I think it's all relative...everything you point out is accurate, but within context of $100M league they fall within the proper context of affordability. I don't know that it's quite fair to compare one year versus another, unless it's to demonstrate how the high-octane hitters now come at a higher premium because there production and/or defense combinations are not as common amongst the player sets as they once were.

Again - I think it depends on how you perceive an appropriate pay scale, relative to the game competitiveness (which I'd argue can be countered by increasing the league salary cap anyway).

That's exactly right. But in the past they typically try to make the set work for an 80 mil league as those have always been played more often. In this set, it seems that wasn't the goal. Maybe they tried to make it work for a 90 mil league to make 100 mil better? SOM would need to input on that. I'll say I have 1 80 and 1 100 league starting tonight. The 100 mil teams all look way better than the 80. I may just make custom 90 mil leagues my default....

My comments about Cano mean I believe he is not usable at that price.

Except in $200m leagues, I do not believe it is viable to have to platoon any $10m+ player and Cano must be platooned against LH pitching - period.

Geekor, fine, take a look at past years and $12m+ players from 20xx sets and tell me that McCutchen is not vastly both inferior and overpriced compared to them.

Geekor, fine, take a look at past years and $12m+ players from 20xx sets and tell me that McCutchen is not vastly both inferior and overpriced compared to them.

I agree that ALL cards are overpriced based off OBP and Def compared to years past. McCutchen is not an exemption. All you need to do is compare Kemp from last year with Trout and McCutchen to see that.

From what I see slugging, hasn't been raised however. Many of the cheap guys with power only are still cheap. It's the combo (OBP + defense) that really kills pricing.

And specifically, OBP pricing has been raised way more than anyone expected. That is where my biggest concern lies. I think if you toned down how much OB weighs into the pricing formula by about 10%, people would be ok with the pricing tbh.

Sorry, besides OBP I think they also need to tone down the % on LHP. Whatever is is, it's too high. They really need to make the side vs LHP weigh less.

My comments about Cano mean I believe he is not usable at that price.

Except in $200m leagues, I do not believe it is viable to have to platoon any $10m+ player and Cano must be platooned against LH pitching - period.

Geekor, fine, take a look at past years and $12m+ players from 20xx sets and tell me that McCutchen is not vastly both inferior and overpriced compared to them.

I guess I'll find out if he's unusable. I'm about to launch tonight with him as my 2nd baseman and I am NOT platooning him. But I want a "1" at 2B and the only other option I considered was Phillips, who is only slightly better vs LHP from a TB perspective and is worse in OB. And people who use Phillips certainly won't be platooning him either (although you could argue he's overpriced as well).

Another reason why I need Cano is that I don't have power anywhere else in the lineup (I'm playing in Kauffman) and it would take a massive roster overhaul to compensate for that. My team in general will crush RHP so I'll plan on winning 65% of those games (which are 65% of the total) and take my lumps against the few LHSP there are.

Sorry, besides OBP I think they also need to tone down the % on LHP. Whatever is is, it's too high. They really need to make the side vs LHP weigh less.

Totally agree.


Regarding the earlier point about whether or not SOM is trying to make realism fit an $80m cap or higher ($90m, $100m?)...that's an interesting take on it...you may be on to something.

And yeah, I have two completed 2012 drafts so far, one at $100M which starts tonight and I have high hopes for:
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/820962

And then an $80m which goes through waivers tonight. I hate this team so far...a lot of work to do with it:
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/821270


Anyway...thought that would be fun to share!