Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Since we're both deep into the MLB playoffs--with two dark horses in the AL championship--and the NFL season, this week's thread/poll will focus on the infield's bruisers, the 3b, and the NFL's bruisers, its defenders. Like always, the baseball poll will apply only to players who played most of their careers after WWII. The NFL poll is unrestricted. But, since all positions are eligible, posters will have to decide which positions they value the most.

Greatest Third Basemen

1. Mike Schmidt. Massive power and smooth D. Didnt' stop Philllies fans from booing him.
2 Adrian Beltre. Excellent hitter, maybe best 3b glove since Brooks.
3. Eddie Matthews. The unrecognized Schmidt. Same potent combo, less lasting recognition.
4. Chipper Jones. Switch-hitting, unquestioned leader, and OBP god.
5. Wade Boggs. Best pure hitter at the position ever.
6. George Brett. Fierce competitor and perhaps best all-around player at 3b
7. Brooks Robinson. Best defensive 3b, maybe best defensive player, ever.
8. Scott Rolen. Awesome defender, tough hitter, gritty competitor.
9. Ron Santo. Should have made HOF before his death. Consistently excellent, if not spectacular.
10. Matt Williams. See Rolen above.

Greatest NFL Defensive Players
1. Ray Lewis, ILB. Platonic ideal of a defender. Extremely fast, strong, smart, big, and mean for 17 years.
2. Lawrence Taylor, OLB Most disruptive defender ever. There will never be another pass rusher like him.
3. Jack Ham, OLB. Sublimely intelligent, fast, and versatile. Quiet leader contrasted Lambert's bluster.
4. Ronnie Lott, DB. Greatest player ever at both DB positions. Most lethal clean hitter ever.
5. Dick Butkus, ILB Not as athletic as the moderns, but his ferocity established LB standards.
6. Jack Lambert. ILB Ferocious, nasty player and much better pass defender than given credit.
7. Rod Woodson, DB Ungodly fast, strong, and smart. Better hitter than Sanders, better cover man than Lott.
8. Reggie White. The Minister. Greatest all-around DL ever and charismatic team leader.
9. Mike Singletary. Smaller than other ILBs mentioned, but wicked smart and efficient. Horrible coach, though.
10. Deacon Jones, DE. First great pass rusher. LT of his era...and he taught Peter Brady to stand up to bullies.

No way Boggs better than Brett and I live in Boston and liked him as a player. Boggs was a great leadoff hitter(walked a lot too) but the only year he ever hit for power the ball was juiced. Not the game changer/impact hitter Brett could be and was. Beltre better than Matthews and Brett is just crazy. IMO after Schmidt/Matthews/Brett the rest are somewhat interchangeable until you get down to Matt Williams/Rolen

You are very passionate about your third basemen; I like that. You're absolutely right about Boggs and Brett. I was going to switch them before I posted, but I forgot. However, I'm not sure about Matthews, Beltre, and Brett, who are close in my view. Here are their main statistics:

Player-----HR------RBi-------BA/OBP/SLG
Beltre-----395-----1384-----.285/.337/.479
Brett------317-----1453------.305/.369/.387
Matthews--512----1596------.271/.376/.509

So, if we went completely by offense, then Matthews and Brett should be 2 and 4. However, when I factored in Beltre's sublime defense at the position and compared it to Brett's ok D and Matthews' subpar D, I decided I would take Beltre over the other two. That being said, I have no problem with Brett or Matthews there. They both rocked.

1. Mike Schmidt
2. George Brett - If he hadn't had the bad knees, might have made it to #1. One of the best, if not THE best, pure line drive hitter I eve saw
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Adrian Beltre
5. Ron Santo

l.strether wrote:You are very passionate about your third basemen; I like that. You're absolutely right about Boggs and Brett. I was going to switch them before I posted, but I forgot. However, I'm not sure about Matthews, Beltre, and Brett, who are close in my view. Here are their main statistics:

Player-----HR------RBi-------BA/OBP/SLG
Beltre-----395-----1384-----.285/.337/.479
Brett------317-----1453------.305/.369/.387
Matthews--512----1596------.271/.376/.509

So, if we went completely by offense, then Matthews and Brett should be 2 and 4. However, when I factored in Beltre's sublime defense at the position and compared it to Brett's ok D and Matthews' subpar D, I decided I would take Beltre over the other two. That being said, I have no problem with Brett or Matthews there. They both rocked.

I think you have an error in the stats for Brett. SLG was .487.

Brett OPS lifetime was .857, Beltre .816. Big advantage to Brett offensively.

Thanks for the correction. .387 would have been a paltry SLG pct. for Brett (or most players). Brett was the superior offensive player. For me, Beltre was the better all-around third baseman (as I note above) because his defense was so far above most third basemen, including Brett, and he hit with more power than Brett. As I said to Durantjerry, though, Beltre, Brett, Matthews, and Jones were so close in my estimation that any of them could have occupied 2-5.

Now, is anybody In this forum an NFL fan? I thought people would be lining up to knock Ray Lewis off the top of my list and bring up the players I had left off. I guess we're more of a sensitive group of Beatles fans than a macho group of NFL lovers...

Sorry, second correction to the stats.

Brett has the 1596 RBIs and Mathews 1453. Brett is 35 on the all-time RBI list, Matthews 59, and Beltre 77.

Brett finished with one more RBI than Schmidt, for what it's worth.

Thanks, again. I appreciate the clarity. As to that one rbi, it doesn't make a difference. Schmidt is the modern 3b god.

Now, how about some defensive NFL players, Boyer? You've got to be fond of a few.

l.strether wrote:
Now, is anybody In this forum an NFL fan? I thought people would be lining up to knock Ray Lewis off the top of my list and bring up the players I had left off. I guess we're more of a sensitive group of Beatles fans than a macho group of NFL lovers...

Well that's a helluva list, but how you leave Bednarik and Nitschke off of it is beyond me. Problem is I'm not not sure who you'd drop, Woodson, I think for sure, but otherwise it's tough. I'd also say Bruce Smith is right there too, and much as I hate the Cowboys, a case could be made for Randy White.

I must admit I did not look at Beltre's career stats. No way I would have guessed he has been in the league 16 years with 395 HR's. Pretty impressive.