Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Surprised I do not see a thread on the World Series. First 2 games have not been nailbiters but there is a lot there for real baseball fans.

Giants one of only a handful of teams in history to appear in 3 WS in a 5 year span not named yankees. Maybe not being recognized as dynasty or historical run because they are alternating years.

KC is a nice story. We have been hearing about how good the farm system was for years now. Non-KC fans seemed to revel in pointing out that talent had not produced at the top level. A lot of people laughed when they traded a top hitting prospect (Myers) to get Shields and Wade. Read a lot of "experts" scoffing at making Shields the ace of staff and making the deal at all since it appeared to be trading future long term success for short time success. But it paid off.

What I really like about KC though is they play the style baseball I really like to watch. Speed, defense, and pitching. I have been watching that bullpen form over the last couple years as I watched them when they played My Rangers. You knew 2 years ago they had quality arm in quantity. One game stuck in my mind when they went deep in to their pen and were still bringing in power arms featuring upper 90s heat. Cain grabbed the spotlight a couple years ago in spring training when he had a brief power surge. There was temptation to be disappointed after he got to KC because the power did not continue. Just did not realize how fast he was and how much ground he covered in CF until I got to see him a lot during this playoff run. Easy to miss things like that only watching a team a couple times a year. KC must be a living nightmare for the Saber guys who say stolen base is bad.

Valen wrote: A lot of people laughed when they traded a top hitting prospect (Myers) to get Shields and Wade. Read a lot of "experts" scoffing at making Shields the ace of staff and making the deal at all since it appeared to be trading future long term success for short time success. But it paid off.

Nobody "scoffed" at KC making Shields the ace of the staff'; everybody knew he was going to pitch well for the Royals. The only question was whether or not it would matter in his 2 years in KC before he inevitably left the team; and it has. As to the rest of the trade, Myers obviously made it look great for the Rays last year and terrible for them this year. If he learns to actually hit breaking balls, then the Rays still win; if not; they will have to take comfort in Odorizzi.

As to the Giants, I am definitely loving it. Although, after going in 2010 and 12, I'm sitting this one out. I grew up with the lousy teams of the 70's and (mostly) 80's and 90's. So, what Sabean and Bochy have done for them has been much appreciated. This World Series appearance almost guarantees Bochy's HOF induction, and it should definitely guarantee Sabean's as well.

The GIants deserve credit for 3 WS visits in 5 years because of the achievement occurring in the free agent era of baseball. There have been a few other franchises that were able to be consistent threats to win it all in this era, but the opportunity to go from worst to first, and vice versa is much different now that the players' playing rights are not owned by the teams in perpetuity.

As for KC, as a Tigers fan living in Cleveland, well, they aren't my first choice. But there certainly experts decrying the Myers trade as sacrificing the future, but for how many years have the Royals and other teams like them always holding up ratings of prospects and telling fans, "Just wait till .... gets here?" And how many big money free agents are waiting around for their contract to end to join the Royals? So bravo to the Royals for taking the plunge with Shields. I suppose the logical choice might be to hold on to every prospect (as a GM), and if/when they don't pan out, to have a variety of suspects to throw under the bus: scouts, minor league staffs, major league staff, the player himself. But if the GM trades, oh, say, John Smoltz from Class A to the Braves for a half season of glory in an aging Doyle Alexander, the fans never forget that one years later!

The GIants deserve credit for 3 WS visits in 5 years because of the achievement occurring in the free agent era of baseball. There have been a few other franchises that were able to be consistent threats to win it all in this era, but the opportunity to go from worst to first, and vice versa is much different now that the players' playing rights are not owned by the teams in perpetuity.

As I said above, Sabean probably cemented his future spot in the HOF, as it has been his savvy and leadership--along with Dick Tidrow's--that set the course for all this. Sabes caught instant heat with his first big trade--Matt Williams for Jeff Kent, Vizcaino, and Sanchez--but it worked out extremely well. And while he's had his few duds--e.g. Wheeler for Beltran--he's literally stolen Jason Schmidt, Robb Nen, Hunter Pence, Angel Pagan, Marco Scutaro, J.T. Snow, Javy Lopez, Randy Winn, and others for SF. Billy Beane deserves all the accolades he's gotten across the bay, but it has truly (and unfairly) overshadowed Sabean's tremendous work.

I suppose the logical choice might be to hold on to every prospect (as a GM), and if/when they don't pan out, to have a variety of suspects to throw under the bus: scouts, minor league staffs, major league staff, the player himself. But if the GM trades, oh, say, John Smoltz from Class A to the Braves for a half season of glory in an aging Doyle Alexander, the fans never forget that one years later!

Do teams actually "throw employees under the bus" when they hold onto a prospect and he doesn't pan out? I can't recall that ever happening. Anyway, the best choice regarding prospects is to trade the worse ones--regardless of their rankings--and keep the good ones. As obvious as that seems, not all GMs are as good at Sabean at it. For example, in getting all those players I mentioned, Sabean traded away these "prospects": Joe Fontenot, Mike Villano, Ryan Vogelsong, Tommy Joseph, John Bowker, Joe Martinez, and Charlie Culberson. Vogelsong did make a comeback after bombing out with the Pirates, but the rest are footnotes (including Culberson).

Some argue that you throw that principle away when you have a shot at the title, but history doesn't bear that out...and Smoltz is a perfect example. There are many Smoltzs, Wheelers, Carlos Guillens, who have gone on to haunt their hubristic ex-teams. There are few James Shields-type trades where the opposite has occurred. And if all goes well on Tuesday or Wednesday, that trade will lose a bit of its luster as well...

I can tell you that Padres' new ownership sure as h3ll thew GM Josh Byrnes under the bus this year, and he deserved it -- placed big bet on Maybin, Gyorko, even freakin' Hundley, all washed out. Big contracts for oft-injured Carlos Q (who I really like, but c'mon, the guy's picture is next to DH in the dictionary) and excellent but unnecessary closer Huston Street, and the biggest dud of all fragile former ace Josh Johnson, who got $8.75mm to sit and nurse his bum arm all year.

As for the World Series, I'm pulling for K.C., the biggest Cinderella onstage in a very long time.

tws

TomSiebert wrote:I can tell you that Padres' new ownership sure as h3ll thew GM Josh Byrnes under the bus this year, and he deserved it -- placed big bet on Maybin, Gyorko, even freakin' Hundley, all washed out. Big contracts for oft-injured Carlos Q (who I really like, but c'mon, the guy's picture is next to DH in the dictionary) and excellent but unnecessary closer Huston Street, and the biggest dud of all fragile former ace Josh Johnson, who got $8.75mm to sit and nurse his bum arm all year.

Well, first of all, since Byrnes "deserved" what he got, he was hardly thrown under the bus...

Also, Byrnes definitely didn't get fired for putting too much faith in prospects developing. Maybin was an ex-Tigers/Marlins prospect who did have an excellent year for the Pads. Gyorko and Hundley also had solid seasons as well, so they're not prospects who "failed." As you correctly pointed out, he made mistakes in giving out stupid contracts--Johnson and Gyorko are excellent examples--and failing to build a successful major league club. Also the Latos trade was a washout, and the Padres would still be better off with Rizzo at first than having the talented but oft-injured Cashner.

So, I still haven't seen someone thrown under the bus for a team keeping a prospect who didn't pan out. I'm still curious to see an example of it.

I'm a Padres season ticket holder, and I can tell you that Rizzo is a bad fit for Petco Park. Wrigley a much better fit; he'll hit 30+ HRs in Chicagoland that would be 15 (maybe) in San Diego. Feel it was the rare trade where both teams won.

Only in 2014 did I start to worry about Cashner being fragile; in the 2013 season, he only lost time because of that stupid hunting accident; in 2012 he bounced back pretty quickly.

I like Cameron Maybin, have met him and talked with him several times, he's funny and humble, but don't think he's had an "excellent" season anywhere yet; I'd say 2011 was a "good" season. He can sure cover ground in CF, though. Gyorko had a good rookie year for HRs, but had OBA under .300 and not a ton of range at 2b; he'll likely move back to his original position next season now that Headley's gone, but I'm not enthused about him. The entire Padres IF is suspect, except maybe for Cabrera as SS, who has range and speed and a good arm, but his best year by far was 2013 when he got suspended for juice.

And I'd say Josh Byrnes got thrown under the bus because they didn't even let the guy finish the season; believe me, the town was looking for a scapegoat and nobody wanted to point fingers at the new owners. But he deserved it as well, so maybe this is a mixed bag.

But we have degenerated from the World Series topic, and I apologize for that. At least it's an off night.

I'm a Padres season ticket holder, and I can tell you that Rizzo is a bad fit for Petco Park. Wrigley a much better fit; he'll hit 30+ HRs in Chicagoland that would be 15 (maybe) in San Diego. Feel it was the rare trade where both teams won.
Only in 2014 did I start to worry about Cashner being fragile; in the 2013 season, he only lost time because of that stupid hunting accident; in 2012 he bounced back pretty quickly.

That's cool that you're a Padres season ticket holder, but Rizzo still would have been a better 1b to keep than Alonso. Yes, Rizzo would hit more hr's in Wrigley than Petco, as would everyone. He still would have hit many doubles in spacious Petco, more home runs than Alonso, and he would have been a power threat on the road they do not currently have. And Cashner has shown himself to be fragile this year and still has not been a fair return on the rising star Rizzo. Byrnes would have been much smarter holding on to Rizzo and Latos than trading them for Alonso and Cashner (and Grandal).

I like Cameron Maybin, have met him and talked with him several times, he's funny and humble, but don't think he's had an "excellent" season anywhere yet; I'd say 2011 was a "good" season. He can sure cover ground in CF, though.

"Excellent" was a bit of a stretch on my part; he had an excellent defensive year and a solid offensive one. However, that wasn't my point. My point was that Maybin wasn't the Padres' prospect; he was someone else's prospect for whom they traded. So Byrnes, or anybody else in the Padre's system, could not be at fault for Maybin's lack of development and wasn't blamed for it.

Gyorko had a good rookie year for HRs, but had OBA under .300 and not a ton of range at 2b; he'll likely move back to his original position next season now that Headley's gone, but I'm not enthused about him.

Again, this isn't relevant to the point I made. I said Gyorko did have a good rookie year, so Byrnes can't be and wasn't faulted for his development. However, you and I did agree Byrnes made a big mistake giving him such a big contract before he proved his rookie season wasn't a fluke.

And I'd say Josh Byrnes got thrown under the bus because they didn't even let the guy finish the season; believe me, the town was looking for a scapegoat and nobody wanted to point fingers at the new owners. But he deserved it as well, so maybe this is a mixed bag.

If Byrnes deserved to be fired, as you have said in both posts, then he couldn't have been "thrown under the bus." When someone is "thrown under the bus," he or she was made a scapegoat who didn't deserve their blame or fate. Since you acknowledge Byrnes deserved his firing, that doesn't apply to Byrnes.

P.s. No apology needed for moving "off topic." We all have. Tomorrow we should be back to focusing on the World Series. Considering I'm hosting a World Series viewing party for family and friends, though, don't expect me to be coherent enough to reply...

Maybin et al are the reverse Smoltz--one year (not even for Florida) of "good" for one of the best hitters in this era.

Maybin...UGH! He's not a smart ballplayer. Maybin had one good month with the bat in 2014. And only four stolen bases in 2014. Ridiculous. He finally learned how to come in for line drives/flyballs after repeatedly hurting himself diving head-first for so many seasons. He injured himself again in Spring Training diving head-first and missed some regular season time. And a guy with his speed needs to learn about taking a walk. Then he gets busted for some illegal drug use in 2014. And he waited too long to fix his wrist. Very frustrating to follow this guy. I hope he gets traded. I've had enough. Chronic underachiever.


I want to get my early congratulations in for San Francisco. I think they're about to finish off the Royals. A lot of their vets are stepping up big in the post-season after not so great regular seasons.