Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Baseball season is over as the Giants establish a new type of dynasty: the dynasty of the good-not-great teams. As many of us move on to basketball, hockey, and football, the diehards wonder who will sign Scherzer, Shields, and Lester; and whether or not Maddon will finally end the Billy Goat Curse. So, for those diehards (and others) the first half of this week's poll/thread will focus on the greatest first basemen since WWII.

The second half will focus on our ten favorite songs of the 80's. The 80's was a messy decade of stylish excess: bad Armani suits, huge cell phones, and hair spray. It was also a decade so ethically bereft that when Gordon Gekko said "greed Is good," the movie audience applauded. But it had many memorable songs on which we look back fondly. So, man your own delorean/time machine and come up with ten of your faves.


Greatest First Basemen: (Palmeiro would have been 7 if not for roids)
1. Albert Pujols. Supreme right-handed hitter, graceful fielder, and speedy baserunner .
2. Miguel Cabrera. He may be the greatest pure right-handed hitter since WW II.
3. Frank Thomas. Except maybe The Big Hurt. A frightening, but patient, offensive force.
4. Willie McCovey. Stretch was the epitome of the laconic but lethal lefty first baseman.
5. Eddie Murray. Stretch #2 who was wrongly punished for his terseness with the Press.
6. Jeff Bagwell. Until he's officially outed as a roider, this highly athletic, potent 1b stays at 6.
7. Harmon Killebrew. Devastating power in a pre-roids era. Lots of strikeouts, too.
8. Orlando Cepeda. The Baby bull was big, fast, and very strong. Sadly overlooked today.
9. Jim Thome. Massive power and exceptional character made him a shining power source in the Roids era.
10. Fred McGriff. Crime Dog is one of the greatest players who will just miss the HOF.

Favorite Songs of the 80's
1. Welcome to the Jungle by Guns & Roses. Anarchic anthem announced G & R's arrival with alarming authority.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg

2. Little Red Corvette by Prince. His Highness brilliantly melds Funk, Rock and R & B on this Pop confection.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5750283/p ... _corvette/

3, She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult. Astbury's Goth-metal howls and Duffy's wicked riffs opened the door for G & R.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I8mWG6HlmU

4, Bizarre Love Triangle by New Order. The best dance song from the Mid-80's club scene evokes many memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7tFKNlyXc

5, Begin the Begin by REM. America's greatest Rock band rock out with Stipe howling and Peter Buck grinding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gFy-rGnuLA

6. I Feel Possessed by Crowded House. McCartney deems Finn our best songwriter. This dark love song is his best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhhB4ztWFbQ

7. Hazy Shade of Winter by The Bangles. Rocking cover of Simon/Garfunkel classic showed the Bangles' Punk roots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxrwImCJCqk

8. Love Comes Tumbling by U2. Moody classic was far superior to similar sounding "With or Without You"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMcF_Ngv88

9.The Boys of Summer by Don Henley. This lush elegy signaled his solo brilliance and even greater work to come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtxlvQqvDQs

10. (3-way-tie) A View to a Kill by Duran Duran. Greatest Bond song ever shows DD was a very talented Pop band.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=duran+dura ... -SearchBox

Don't You Forget About Me by Simple Minds. Breakfast Club's anthem spoke to 80's high schoolers...including me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwwexXJla0k

Devil Inside by INXS. Micheal Hutchence's silky, sensual paean to carnality was the Aussies' greatest R&B/rocker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv_zJrO_ptk

Can't really argue with the list, but I will anyway .

Seems a bit power-heavy for my tastes. Would want to have SOM player Keith Hernandez somewhere, as well as Don Mattingly, Will Clark, J.T. Snow, Mark Grace, Bill White. 1B is a spot where they often put the DH types so they have a place in the lineup, but a great fielding 1B changes the dynamics of the infield. You think twice about bunting against him, the line is taken away in the late innings, those lovely 3-6-3 dps. It ain't just about the hitting.

1980s songs later.

Bill

Miggy's played how many seasons at 1B (not enough to qulaify) Big Hurt played more games at DH than 1B....

and you left off Lou Gehrig?

george barnard wrote: Seems a bit power-heavy for my tastes. Would want to have SOM player Keith Hernandez somewhere, as well as Don Mattingly, Will Clark, J.T. Snow, Mark Grace, Bill White. 1B is a spot where they often put the DH types so they have a place in the lineup, but a great fielding 1B changes the dynamics of the infield. You think twice about bunting against him, the line is taken away in the late innings, those lovely 3-6-3 dps. It ain't just about the hitting.

Hitting heavy? perhaps; power heavy? definitely not...or Thome and Killebrew would have been much higher. Also, as a lifelong Giants fan who has watched Clark, Belt, and (particularly) Snow man the position, I am well aware of the benefits of a smooth-fielding first baseman, including those "lovely 3-6-3" dps. However, first base is an offensive position. Superior defensive first basemen just don't win games like superior defensive shortstops, centerfielders, or even right fielders or second basemen. If they did, both Snow and Wes Parker would be in the HOF like Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski

Now, to your other first basemen you mentioned, where would you put them on your Top Ten, and who would you replace on my list? Obviously, they all far short offensively to make mine. I would look forward to your more defense-oriented Top Ten 1b list, as well as your favorite 80's song list.

I'd probably go more like
1. Bagwell - number 45 on Bill James 100 greatest of all time
2. Murray - Best switch hitter of my time
3, McCovey - a most fearsome sight at the plate
4. Pujols
5. Thomas
6 Cepeda
7. Miggy (probably moves up in a couple years)
8. Hernandez
9. Thome
10. Tony Perez

Once again, I know the poll doesnt ask for albums, but it's too hard to do songs. Especially in this decade, which I pretty much despise for the most part


Murmer - REM
Stop Making Sense - Talking Heads
Rain Dogs - Tom Waits
Broadsword and the Beast - Jethro Tull
What's New? - Linda Ronstadt
Love Over Gold - Dire Straits
The Nightfly - Donald Fagan
Moving Pictures - Rush
Graceland - Paul Simon
Crest of a Knave - Jethro Tull
Night and Day - Joe Jackson
Joshua Tree - U2

geekor wrote:Miggy's played how many seasons at 1B (not enough to qulaify) Big Hurt played more games at DH than 1B....

and you left off Lou Gehrig?

I wasn't aware you had set the qualifications rule, Geekor. Please share with the rest of the forum your determination process. However, both Cabrera and Thomas played more than enough games at the position to qualify for my list. If you disagree, please submit your own list following your rules.

As to Gehrig, try to read the posts. I specifically said the lists were to include the greatest first basemen after WWII. So, Gehrig hardly qualifies.

Now, if you actually want to contribute any lists of first basemen or 80's songs, I'm sure everyone would love to read them.

Ist baseman today, 80's songs at a later date and I'm sort of with SteveF tough for me to nail done songs, over albums, though I do not agree that it was a poor decade for songs, Any decade with U2 the Police, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Bruce Springsteen Michael Jackson... well you get the idea, isn't lacking for great songs.

I'm gonna get picky and limit it to guys that I feel 1b was their primary posiiton, which leaves Cabrera, Thomas, & Thome off the list Cabrera being the hardest one to leave off, but his years at 3b, knock him down for me. I also like overall games not just offensive prowess whether it's power or high average, so some of your list will get dinged for defense and I'll add some guys on my list helped because of their defense.


So guys like Thome, Cabrera and Thomas, would just go on a Hitter's list, regardless of position, for guys that are/were primary DH's and or played multiple positions. It's a cheat, but it lets me make another category and get some other guys on a list.

1. Albert Pujols.
2. Jeff Bagwell
3. Willie McCovey
4. Eddie Murray
5. Harmaon Killebrew
6. Orlando Cepeda
7. Keith Hernandez
8. Steve Garvey
9. Andres Galaragga
Tie 10. Fred McGriff and Don Mattingly


This is probably the hardest position to do a top ten because there are so many worthy candidates

Ninersphan wrote:I'm gonna get picky and limit it to guys that I feel 1b was their primary posiiton, which leaves Cabrera, Thomas, & Thome off the list Cabrera being the hardest one to leave off, but his years at 3b, knock him down for me. I also like overall games not just offensive prowess whether it's power or high average, so some of your list will get dinged for defense and I'll add some guys on my list helped because of their defense.


1. Albert Pujols.
2. Jeff Bagwell
3. Willie McCovey
4. Eddie Murray
5. Harmaon Killebrew
6. Orlando Cepeda
7. Keith Hernandez
8. Steve Garvey
9. Andres Galaragga
Tie 10. Fred McGriff and Don Mattingly

Actually, Niners, the only first basemen you excluded from my list were Cabrera, Thomas, and Thome. So, if you excluded them for not enough games at 1b, you didn't exclude any of my 1bs for defense. Also, you can't value defense, privilege all-around game and place Killebrew at 5. He was a terrible first baseman and a strike-out machine.

I do look forward to your 80's list, though.

I probably should have put Killebrew in there somewhere, his power in it's time was unbelievable!

l.strether wrote:

Ninersphan wrote:I'm gonna get picky and limit it to guys that I feel 1b was their primary posiiton, which leaves Cabrera, Thomas, & Thome off the list Cabrera being the hardest one to leave off, but his years at 3b, knock him down for me. I also like overall games not just offensive prowess whether it's power or high average, so some of your list will get dinged for defense and I'll add some guys on my list helped because of their defense.


1. Albert Pujols.
2. Jeff Bagwell
3. Willie McCovey
4. Eddie Murray
5. Harmaon Killebrew
6. Orlando Cepeda
7. Keith Hernandez
8. Steve Garvey
9. Andres Galaragga
Tie 10. Fred McGriff and Don Mattingly

Actually, Niners, the only first basemen you excluded from my list were Cabrera, Thomas, and Thome. So, if you excluded them for not enough games at 1b, you didn't exclude any of my 1bs for defense. Also, you can't value defense, privilege all-around game and place Killebrew at 5. He was a terrible first baseman and a strike-out machine.

I do look forward to your 80's list, though.

Hey, it's my list I can do whatever I want , and the 3 guys I excluded were left off for BOTH reasons.

Some times, raw power trumps other attributes, hence Killebrew. But If you want me to play strictly by overall game, move Killebrew off, move the rest up and slide Mattingly into 10th.