Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Ten Greatest Shortstops Now
1. Troy Tulowitzki, CO--Haunted by the mark of Cain, but arguably the best ever.
2. Ian Desmond, WS--Needs to shore up D, but has become an offensive beast.
3. J.J. Hardy, BO--Solid mix of power and D. Yankees should have signed him years ago.
4. Alexei Ramirez, CWS--Underrated player has the whole package--pop, speed, defense.
5. Andrelton Simmons, ATL--Off year, but he's still our defensive standard.
6. Brandon Crawford, SF--Underrated player with smooth glove and clutch LH bat. His power will increase.
7, Adeiny Hechevarria, MIA--Similar player to Simmons, could become a better one.
8. Starlin Castro, CHC--Improving potent offense, attitude, and shoddy footwork.
9. Alcides Escobar, KC--Smooth blend of speed, defense, and solid bat.
10. Jhonny Peralta, STL--Range factor not as bad as people think, with same striking power.

Ten Greatest War Movies of All Time
1. Apocalypse Now--Heart of Darkness meets the Vietnam War in this dark, twisted Epic.
2. The Thin Red Line--Elegant examination of consciousness and ethics in War.
3. Inglorious Basterds--Stunning study of movies, war, and war movies...and David Bowie.
4. From Here to Eternity--Clift and Sinatra shine in classic about pre-war anxiety pre-Pearl Harbor.
5. Platoon--Frightening revelation of the Vietnam War's inherent chaos...and a sane Charlie Sheen.
6. Paths of Glory--Kubricks' masterpiece about the cruel injustice during war, not just of it.
7. The Bridge on the River Kwai--Lean's classic about honor and its place in war.
8. The Dirty Dozen--60's iconoclasm meets old-fashioned 40's Nazi-killing...with Jim Brown.
9. The Hurt Locker--Gritty look at the exhilaration of war and it's addictiveness.
10. The Great Escape--Awesome heist/caper/McQueen movie in a WWII setting.

1. Tulo (the current gold standard but not close to being in the argument for best ever)
2. Simmons (defensive monster, offensive growth upside given age)
3. Desmond
4. Peralta (one of the game's most underrated ballplayers, gap between defensive rep and stats)
5. Starlin Castro (still just 25, on upside moves to 5th)
6. Elvis Andrus (in spite of last year, he hasn't left the building)
7. Jose Reyes (still big O for the position in spite of aging)
8. Erick Aybar (another underrated guy, surprising given LA market, but D can be hard to assess )
9. Brandon Crawford (battle tested, in his prime)
10. J.J. Hardy

It's obvious when comparing this list to the other positions we've ranked that ss is very thin. Probably thinnest position in baseball, overtaking 2b from the past several years.

I'd add Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" to the list of outstanding war movies. A brutal film, but such is the subject. Intense beyond belief, and in certain ways the most realistic.

And I think a case can be made for Chris Owings to make a great surprising leap forward and displace someone like Hardy off the list this year. In fact I list him above Hardy in my mind half the time. The raw skill set is there, the offensive upside clearly exceeds Hardy. Imma say Owings 10!

And don't forget The Deer Hunter

teamnasty wrote:1. Tulo (the current gold standard but not close to being in the argument for best ever)

First of all, Teamnasty, thanks for having the directness, if not the tact, of claiming I'm wrong...even though I'm not. There's been a lot of crying on the Forum lately about how terrible it is to correct someone or say they're wrong. Your doing so proves a lot of people still do it...and there's nothing wrong with it.

That being said, Tulowitzki absolutely is in the argument for best ever. The only SS who has ever displayed the same raw offensive talent and defensive prowess at the position is A-Rod, and hes has played many years at 3b. He has hit 20-30 hrs in 6 of his 8 seasons, he has a career line of .299/.373/.517, and he has won two Gold Gloves. So, he is one of the greatest to play the position.

If you actually think he is "not in the argument" for greatest shortstop, then give us your list of the ten greatest shortstops ever. If you don't think Tulowitzki belongs among them, that should be no problem for you.


P.s. I like Owings, but he hasn't shown Hardy's power yet, and he doesn't come close to having his range.

P.p.s. Full Metal Jacket is ok. The Parris Island scenes were particularly strong.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1960 ... lb-history

For now I'll just post this link. Tulo's warp scores are roughly half that of the 10th best shortstop on this list. And he's already past his peak.

Not.even.close. He's averaged about 400 PA's the past 5 years and has heavily inflated offensive stats due to Coors. Strat ranking him a 1 consistently doesn't put him in the same universe as the greatest defensive shortstops of all time.

And yes you're wrong, but I am posting in the spirit of free speech and debate, not as a personal attack.

Have a good day, enjoying the lists. All but our shortstop lists have been pretty similar so far.

For now I'll just post this link. Tulo's warp scores are roughly half that of the 10th best shortstop on this list. And he's already past his peak.

This isn't your top ten list, and as we've discussed before, WAR is not the end-all/be-all arbiter of a player's worth, no matter how much you mistakenly think it is. It definitely isn't here. So, you're wrong.

Not.even.close. He's averaged about 400 PA's the past 5 years and has heavily inflated offensive stats due to Coors. Strat ranking him a 1 consistently doesn't put him in the same universe as the greatest defensive shortstops of all time.

Actually his stats haven't been much inflated by Coors at all. He's done outstanding outside of Coors. So, you're wrong again.

And yes you're wrong, but I am posting in the spirit of free speech and debate, not as a personal attack.

And no I'm not wrong. I'm absolutely correct, and you have yet to prove otherwise. I on the other hand have shown that you are wrong. I never said you made a personal attack on me. The people I've mentioned haven't been complaining about personal attacks. They have literally been trying to stifle free speech by crying about how terrible it is to disagree with someone or say they're wrong, as you and I have just done.

Have a good day enjoying the lists as well. I'm still looking forward to your top ten shortstop list of all time. We both know you can't come up with ten better shortstops who played the position than Tulowitzki.

Your faith in your absolute correctness is nothing if not consistent across all threads. Good day sir!

teamnasty wrote:And yes you're wrong,

Your faith in your absolute correctness, as above, has been spread all around the Forum. So stop projecting...

Have a good day.

l.strether wrote:And no I'm not wrong. I'm absolutely correct, and you have yet to prove otherwise. I on the other hand have shown that you are wrong.

It is quotes like this that is wearing people out in the forums. Why can't one person say Tulo is the best ever and someone else post that someone else is the best ever and we get to enjoy both points of view without pronouncements like "my opinion is the only possible correct answer"? When suggesting that any player is the best player at his position there is no way of verifying that statement and conversely there is no way to prove that statement isn't correct either. Now if you narrow that argument to something like who had the most extra base hits, then that fact can be determined. Best player has to factor in too many things like fielding, hitting, speed, durability and many other factors which can not all be defined or easily compared so therefore would be subjective to one's own opinion.

Posting opinions is fun, saying anyone who disagrees is therefore wrong is not.