Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

So, Strat ignores the results on the cards that indicates the results for ballpark homeruns (and just uses whatever stadium the game is played in). But are those results factored in the price? Interestingly enough, the results on the card, as far as I can tell, reflect homeruns based on half the games in the players home ball park and half in a neutral ballpark with a 1-8 setting. So if you have Travis Shaw or Jackie Bradley, Jr they get about 2/8 of their BP numbers go for hrs because they play in Fenway with only 1-1 power for lefties. Joey Votto, playing half his games in Great American has 3/4 of his BP numbers go for hrs because he plays in a 1-19 stadium. So does STRAT ignore the numbers on these cards and calculates values base on a 1-8 stadium for the BP homeruns or do guys like Bradley and Shaw have enhanced value because they played in a tough stadium to hit homeruns in? That would mean if you played in Great American not only would you want guys with 8 BP on their card but you might also consider guys who played in a tough hr ballpark to get the most value.

I think Strat calculates the BP HRs as if the regular schedule was being played (I.E Votto, or any other player, played his actual schedule of 2015), so Votto has less BP HRs, and maybe less natural HRs as well, on his card than he would if his home park were Fenway---so there is no way it would be completely accurate in an on-line league as at most it would be 12 different parks--and most likely a very different average of BP effects.

AS for the price--I think Pelletier has pretty much proven that it is calculated in the best parks for the player---for most guys that would be Coors probably for most Hitters--W or N power unless they have no BP singles-- it may fall to Miller park, Camden or Citizens for HR hitters with no BP singles.

Of course the only person who really knows for sure what the cards pricing is based on is the person who creates the formulas. And for obvious reasons that person is not talking. I do think there should be some transparency/discussion with the community concerning how prices are derived.

All cards are priced based off the average stadium, and pricing is based off BP effects. that's where the bargains lie, in the extremes.

Valen wrote:Of course the only person who really knows for sure what the cards pricing is based on is the person who creates the formulas. And for obvious reasons that person is not talking. I do think there should be some transparency/discussion with the community concerning how prices are derived.

Actually we know who is the guy, Mark (Childswc), behind the formulas that serve SOM for the pricing system, and he has posted many information in the past about the pricing system (sometimes it was on the ATG forum).

geekor wrote:All cards are priced based off the average stadium, and pricing is based off BP effects. that's where the bargains lie, in the extremes.

And contrary to what geekor says, Mark stated explicitely that the cards are NOT priced based on the average stadium; it's rather based on the "fittiest" stadium. In short, Mark calculates the value of every card in three stadiums (low homerun, average, and high homerun) and the salary the player is the highest salary among these three stadiums. A player like Dee Gordon might have had a salary of 7.06M in Miller park, 7.99M in an average park, and 8.50 in Marlins park. The latter only is kept. For someone like Votto (4 BPHR), the salary is likely to be very alike in all three stadiums.

Thank Marc for the clarification. So while the results on the card for BP for Bradley, Jr. are apparently an averaging of Fenway and road games, the salary is based on a park like Miller (where the BP on the card are an effective 6.4/8 instead of about 2/8 listed on the card)

freeman wrote:Thank Marc for the clarification. So while the results on the card for BP for Bradley, Jr. are apparently an averaging of Fenway and road games, the salary is based on a park like Miller (where the BP on the card are an effective 6.4/8 instead of about 2/8 listed on the card)

Yes, the creation of a Strat card and the determination of a players' salary are two completely independent operations.

Actually we know who is the guy, Mark (Childswc), behind the formulas that serve SOM for the pricing system, and he has posted many information in the past about the pricing system (sometimes it was on the ATG forum).

I should add that folks at SOM have the final decision and so sometimes they may tweak the salaries suggested by Mark--I think they have a discussion group for that purpose (of which I am not part) before they publish the final salaries.

It took me some work to find the quote, but here is what childsmwc/bbrool/Mark said in the old forum

On another pricing front, one of the biggest implementations that was made [since 2009's season] was pricing to the optimal park. Pricing has always been built off of an average park environment, which makes sense. However, what this promotes is building teams on the extreme ends and finding the players that maximize this environment. Effectively the pricing structure rewarded extreme ballparks, and if you played in a neutral park there weren't many bargains to be found since everyone in the set was priced accordingly to play in that park, since that was the baseline.

[Since 2009] the set was priced three times, once in a hitters environment, pitchers environment, and a neutral park. A players maximum price was used as the starting point for determining the final salary. I won't go further into the math that makes all of this work, but the results are that there is now a group of players that are bargains for the neutral environment. I believe that since, we have made playing in a neutral park a viable winning strategy.

It also left bargains at both park extremes, but it should have reduced the bargain element in their price that would have been there using past pricing.

I retrieved this information from a file I kept updating from public posts coming form Mark (and a few one-on-one discussions I had with him) about how the pricing system was implemented. I sent him a pm to see if I could publish this file on this forum, but he doesn't seem to be available. That said, since most information is public, I might be just too cautious.

Thanks Marcpelletier and others. This quote begs the question. Is this pricing at the optimal park in place only for 20xx or is this the process for ATG pricing as well?

Given the power of modern computers I would think it would be possible to run the formula for every park though and not just 3 arbitrary representative parks. For me the pricing is still a huge black box. To clarify when I say the only person who knows for sure is the person who creates the formulas we have broad generalities like "pricing to the optimal park". Nice to know but still does not tell me a lot. And to be very clear that is not a criticism of the person who does the formula. I understand to a large extent why details are limited. But in my ideal world there would be a sticky thread or a sub forum where those responsible for pricing were presented and occasionally engaged in discussion.

So childsmwc might be the moderator of that and when we expressed assumptions he could set us straight. While the actual details of the math formulas would probably have to remain proprietary it would be nice to be able to discuss them to the extent feasible. And if the final decisions are made by some committee at strat it would be nice to have someone from that committee available for discussion.

Basically it boils down to communication. One likes to think I am informed even if it is just an illusion.