NERP and Catcher Defense

Thanks! I understand. When I played back in the day, they put me at third base, for my arm. Sometimes in the outfield. I was a ruthless defender. Like fish tales, all this may be exaggerated.

Here's the NERP values for all levels of throwers at the same T-10 rating (just can't post ALL in this clunky format:
(-5) T-10 ---- -0.96 NERP
(-4) T-10 ---- -0.76 NERP
(-3) T-10 ---- -0.56 NERP
(-2) T-10 ---- -0.32 NERP
(-1) T-10 ---- 0.00 NERP
(0) T-10 ---- 0.44 NERP
(+1) T-10 ---- 1.04 NERP
(+2) T-10 ---- 1.74 NERP
(+2) T-10 ---- 2.44 NERP

I have only been playing Strato for about 7 years now and a 2 years ago I found the NERP formula. Loving this thread and reading through it because since finding out about NERP I knew about the Catchers Defensive "black hole".

This message of can't post all NERP values for the T Rating because of it being too chunky I understand, but would love to get that data. Unless there isn't that much of a change in NERP values between different T ratings. For example -4 T-1 and a -4 T-10.

I have a question regarding catcher defense with immediate practical consequence for one my teams. It's in a 235M league and I have two two catchers:
Bill Dickey 1963: c-1(-1)e9,T-11(pb-4)
Javy Lopez 2003: c-4(+1)e1,T-8(pb-0)
Both are balanced hitter withs NERPS that are very similar. Still, there is a slight but definite edge to Lopez. Dickey's offensive NERP = 32.58/33.7 in my park (Rogers). Lopez's offensive NERP = 36.97/35.16

On the face of it Dickey, as a c-1(-1), might seem to have the obvious defensive edge over Lopez. But Lopez, as is true of many recent-era backstops, has a clear edge in errors, T- and pb.
Using egvrich's simple method of adding up the catcher's ratings, we have Dickey at 24 (1-1+9+11+4=24). Lopez is at 14 (4+1+1+8+0=14). So if Rich's method is accurate, then Lopez is actually superior defensively as well as offensively.

And if that's true, perhaps I should be starting Lopez instead of Dickey in most situations. Here's the team: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1754875
Do any of you learned folks who have studied the matter closely have an opinion on this matter? I've gotta say that right now my gut is telling me that perhaps I should switch to Lopez as the starter, esp vs LHP, especially since Lopez, with many fewer AB, currently has a much hotter bat.

I have a question regarding catcher defense with immediate practical consequence for one my teams. It's in a 235M league and I have two two catchers:
Bill Dickey 1963: c-1(-1)e9,T-11(pb-4)
Javy Lopez 2003: c-4(+1)e1,T-8(pb-0)
Both are balanced hitter withs NERPS that are very similar. Still, there is a slight but definite edge to Lopez. Dickey's offensive NERP = 32.58/33.7 in my park (Rogers). Lopez's offensive NERP = 36.97/35.16

On the face of it Dickey, as a c-1(-1), might seem to have the obvious defensive edge over Lopez. But Lopez, as is true of many recent-era backstops, has a clear edge in errors, T- and pb.
Using egvrich's simple method of adding up the catcher's ratings, we have Dickey at 24 (1-1+9+11+4=24). Lopez is at 14 (4+1+1+8+0=14). So if Rich's method is accurate, then Lopez is actually superior defensively as well as offensively.

And if that's true, perhaps I should be starting Lopez instead of Dickey in most situations. Here's the team: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1754875
Do any of you learned folks who have studied the matter closely have an opinion on this matter? I've gotta say that right now my gut is telling me that perhaps I should switch to Lopez as the starter, esp vs LHP, especially since Lopez, with many fewer AB, currently has a much hotter bat.

I'm impressed that the 1963 Dickey had such a good arm. He must have been 60 years old. Maybe he rested his arm when Berra was doing most of the catching.

Seriously, I'd consider the fielding as a push.
Play Lopez in parks that favor right handed hitters and against lefty starting pitchers.

I'm impressed that the 1963 Dickey had such a good arm. He must have been 60 years old. Maybe he rested his arm when Berra was doing most of the catching.

Oops! I meant to type 1936.
And that reminds me of this famous quote: "Ty Cobb was once asked by a reporter what he would hit if he played in today’s game, to which Cobb responded by saying that he would hit “about .320”. When the reporter asked why he would hit so low, Cobb responded by saying, “You have to remember, I’m 62-years-old.”

Meanwhile, as to the original question, lab wrote:

Seriously, I'd consider the fielding as a push.
Play Lopez in parks that favor right handed hitters and against lefty starting pitchers.

That sounds like good advice to me. Currently, btw, after 54 game (1/3 of the season), Dickey has allowed 22 SB v 6 CS, 6PB, and 2 TErr in 38 games. For some reason, Lopez is doing better against steals: 5 SB v 5 CS, 4 PB, 0 TErr in 18 games. Not sure why Lopez has that many PB with a zero rating. Dickey does have a big edge in X rolls: 9 outs in 10 rolls. Lopez has just 3 outs, also in 10 rolls.
Small samples all around, but given that Lopez is posting a 1.113 OPS vs Dickey's .837, I've given myself permission to play him vs. the right opposition, and also to regard him as a viable defensive player.

This message of can't post all NERP values for the T Rating because of it being too chunky I understand, but would love to get that data. Unless there isn't that much of a change in NERP values between different T ratings. For example -4 T-1 and a -4 T-10.

I'd love to share stuff! I've been building strat dbs for the last 3-4 years on and off. Trying to get a pricing formula via analysis like Diamonddope but with "other" NERP values like fielding NERP (fNERP), arm, Strikeouts, Clutch, Speed, #Tax, injury and an "extra" category that isn't used 99% of the time with like 0.1-0.3 NERP added and something for DHs to counteact their terrible value via Defense----if they're not using defense shouldn't be too dinged for it....

Catcher Defense and now Pitcher vs L/vsR %s have been the last project. I'd be happy to send over catcher defense findings or whatever.

OuttaLeftfield, here is '36 Dickey vs '03 Lopez

(In Veterans Stadium 10-10-10-10)
offensive NERP 28%/72% split between vs L and R = Dickey

Overall NERP
Dickey = 30.3
Lopez = 26.34

Here is how I scored them for their 3 defensive variables (Range+Error, Arm+T-rating and pb-rating). I'm showing positive NERP values as a good thing (added to players' NERP)

Range+Error
Dickey = -0.54
Lopez = - -3.41

Arm+T-rating
Dickey = -0.06
Lopez = -0.77

pb-rating
Dickey = 0.50
Lopez = 1.51

overall Catcher fNERP
Dickey = 0.10 fNERP
Lopez = -2.66 fNERP

Here are all Catchers over $7mil showing Total NERP, hitNERP and fNERP (note Total NERP is more than just hitNERP+fNERP, hence the discrepency)

Gibson, Josh c-3(-3)e2,T-6(pb-6) $14.39 45.19 44.57 -1.32
Gibson, Josh c-2(-4)e7,T-6(pb-2) $12.63 42.20 38.97 0.47
Piazza, Mike c-4(+1)e6,T-10(pb-2) $9.61 32.97 35.71 -4.16
Mauer, Joe c-1(-3)e1,T-4(pb-4) $9.22 34.41 31.45 2.30
Cochrane, Mickey c-1(-3)e3,T-4(pb-1) $8.33 31.18 27.57 2.71
Dickey, Bill c-1(-1)e4,T-5(pb-2) $8.20 30.89 28.49 1.67
Dickey, Bill c-1(-1)e9,T-11(pb-4) $8.13 30.30 31.42 -0.10
Hartnett, Gabby c-1(-2)e4,T-7(pb-4) $7.78 31.13 29.03 1.37
Piazza, Mike c-4(+1)e5,T-7(pb-6) $7.72 27.38 31.66 -4.72
Campanella, Roy c-1(-3)e6,T-6(pb-2) $7.59 30.26 28.56 1.78
Posey, Buster c-2(-1)e4,T-6(pb-0) $7.52 28.64 27.44 0.68
Carter, Gary c-1(-3)e2,T-7(pb-2) $7.49 29.85 25.40 2.54
Bench, Johnny c-1(-4)e2,T-5(pb-0) $7.46 30.23 23.97 3.35
Piazza, Mike c-4(+3)e2,T-2(pb-0) $7.30 29.27 32.95 -3.35
Bench, Johnny c-1(-4)e7,T-11(pb-3) $7.29 30.02 26.03 1.44
Cochrane, Mickey c-1(-3)e4,T-7(pb-2) $7.23 27.61 26.67 2.15
Posada, Jorge c-2(-2)e1,T-8(pb-3) $7.13 26.12 24.92 0.64
Porter, Darrell c-2(-2)e6,T-8(pb-6) $7.06 25.42 23.84 -1.01
Lopez, Javy c-4(+1)e1,T-8(pb-0) $7.03 26.34 33.70 -2.66
Lombardi, Ernie c-2(-3)e4,T-14(pb-3) $7.01 26.49 27.31 0.16
Dietz, Dick c-3(+1)e8,T-8(pb-8) $7.01 24.39 27.57 -4.47
Slaught, Don c-3(-1)e5,T-6(pb-3) $7.00 23.84 29.08 -1.70

Beckwith, John c-5(+2)e13,T-16(pb-6) $9.63 35.71 37.72 -8.40
Kelly, King c-3(-2)e13,T-20(pb-20) $8.40 29.50 30.33 -7.74
Johnson, Oscar Heavy c-4(0)e11,T-16(pb-7) $7.81 25.92 31.59 -6.12

This is fabulous information! Thanks, nels.
It's great to have defensive NERP on all of the most expensive catcher, and by comparison and inference we can work out the approximate defensive NERP of cheaper catchers.