Pitchers Who Steal

There was a question here several months ago about which pitchers can steal in ATG 8. It's quite an increase from the eight I was told three or four years ago. Seasons noted are only for those during which a stolen base or attempt was made. The totals are far from complete as pitchers hitting stats from only about 1500 leagues were compiled. While 100% certainty can only be obtained by examining their cards, here's a list of the thirty-two I am 95% certain their cards allow them to steal:

Pitcher Seasons SB CS
Alexander, Pete (1915) 8 8 0
Andujar, Joaquin (1985) 14 21 6
Brown, Ray (NeL) 16 18 16
Caldwell, Ray (1911) 11 21 15
Caldwell, Ray (1920) 56 301 61
Cockrell, Phil (NeL) 15 39 24
Coombs, Jack (1911) 45 87 27
Currie, Rube (NeL) 13 13 6
Davis, Roosevelt (NeL) 4 3 5
Dean, Dizzy (1934) 16 20 6
Donaldson, John (NeL) 7 21 12
Fernandez, Sid (1986) 9 12 4
Foster, Rube (NeL) 14 20 12
Gibson, Bob (1968) 6 11 2
Gibson, Bob (1969) 21 55 22
Johnson, Walter (1913) 12 12 3
Mathewson, Christy (1911) 11 16 8
Matlock, Leroy (NeL) 31 70 55
Mendez, Jose (NeL) 14 29 10
Paige, Satchel (NeL) 10 12 8
Redding, Dick (NeL) 4 9 5
Richard, J.R. (1978) 12 11 4
Rogan, Bullet Joe (NeL) 22 60 18
Rusie, Amos (1897) 21 50 10
Scott, Mike (1985) 14 20 3
Smith, Hilton (NeL) 7 6 5
Tannehill, Jesse (1900) 26 42 29
Taylor, Jack (1900) 7 16 4
Wickware, Frank (NeL) 7 17 6
Williams, Smokey Joe (NeL) 16 20 11
Williams, Tom (NeL) 4 5 3
Winters, Nip (NeL) 7 8 10

The success rate is 72% which was a surprise to me since my experience mostly has been with Matlock. Remove the Negro Leaugers and the rate jumps to 77.5% or AAA territory. The Negro Leaguers success rate is 63% or an D or E rating, which is just not fair IMHO. Dizzy Dean has a 77% success rate. You tell me, was Dizzy that much faster than those Negro League pitchers?

Maxie

Amos Rusie (1887) steals bases at an alarming rate in ATG 6-8. In the fifteen seasons I checked in which he attempted a steal he was successful 83% in 60 attempts

Amos Rusie (1887) was credited with one stolen base that year according to Baseball Reference.

Rusie's attempts, as with the other pitchers, has little or no relationship with the manager's SB settings. He stole five bases for one team (1395511) which had a grand total of 22 attempts. On another (1400302) he stole four bases. That team's total attempts was 16.

Maxie

Runnin' Ray Caldwell is the king of steals for pitchers. Every time I've used him he takes off any time he gets on first. Usually ends up with 10 steals or so.

Also I think the '54 Art Houtteman card has a steal rating IIRC.

I don't know if it is a fluke thing or not, but Hal Carlson (Phil 1925) has a SB in two attempts for me this season.
Never used him before so can't say anything more

Mike Leake?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6384863

Runnin' Ray Caldwell

The 1920 Caldwell card certainly has him runnin' and very successfully. He was 12 for 12 on one team (3904860) when he had a total of 19 hits and 7 walks. He swiped 11 without being caught on another (380511) after reaching base 20 times. On a third team he (806035) was 14 of 16 after collecting a grand total of 26 h+bb.
In 52 seasons Caldwell has 757 h+bb. Deducting his 14 triples (0 HR) he has 743 chances to steal. During these seasons he was 301 in 372 attempts. Therefore he attempted to steal 50% of his opportunities.
One of the more successful stolen base artists in ATG 8 is Maury Wills 1962. In 80M leagues he has a SB success rate of 74% in 600 seasons. He has attempted to steal 36298 times in 116236 opportunities or 31% on the time.
In 1920 Ray Caldwell was unsuccessful in his two attempts to steal a base, again according to Baseball Reference.
Leroy Matlock, again according to Baseball Reference, had a total of two unsuccessful stolen base attempts in his career.
My question becomes why does Strat-O-Matic allow a select and limited group of pitchers to steal when in many cases their actual stats do not justify that ability?
Secondly we have no control on these players and their steal attempts. They just go. In the case of runnin' Ray Caldwell we're pleased. In the case of Leroy Matlock we're not.
In the case of Maury Wills we have control.

Maxie

Thanks for showing the actuals on pitcher steals. If pitchers are going to have individual steal ratings/abilities/tendencies those should be displayed somewhere on their cards so we can factor that in to our team building if desired.

Hal Carlson (Phil 1925) has a SB in two attempts

Fluke I think. Checked all the leagues (only 11) he was in since the last player addition and zero SB attempts for either card.
There are a ton of pitchers that have had SB attempts. Most of this, I suspect, are failed H&R or bunts. There are a dozen or so pitchers I've put in a suspect category. I doubt I'll pursue the issue with them.

Maxie

A runner with with very bad stealing numbers (3-1) can successfully steal a base (apart from being very lucky) if that runner is at first base and is involved in a double steal, with the catcher going to third base. I do believe though that double steal is possible only if the runner has some steal numbers---however bad these numbers are.

I think there are errors coded into some of the cards, especially Ray Caldwell. I remember an earlier discussion of his stealing tendencies and somebody posted a web-page in which details of pitching cards was given. Caldwell's card, if I recall correctly, had some incorrectly entered numbers that made him a monster base-stealer.

In real life, Caldwell stole no bases in 1920, and he was caught twice.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ra02.shtml

Spot-checking suggests that some of the other pitchers did have positive real life steal stats. For example Bob Gibson (69) was 5-2 (in '68 1-1).