Skeptical about the value of defensive subs

Not sure defensive subs are worth their weight in supposed "gold." Seems like they get too many at bats and very few X chances, just anecdotally noticing. After 144 games for one team of mine -- I'd rather my at bats go to Ralph Kiner (9.65M, 4 +1 e7) at LF than Dick Whitman (.59M, 2 e7), his defensive sub. So, 22 at bats for Whitman, only "4" X chances to help on defense. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1786820

Seems like always better to have the big hitter for that one last big bop when so few defensive chances go to defensive subs and they can't hit at all. In the above, let's say roll of the dice give 11/11 outcomes (for Whitman's total 22 at bats) on either pitcher or hitter card -- would certainly want those on Kiner than Whitman, even if that sounds like a low number. Sometimes teams come from behind after def subs are inserted. I do rarely use defensive subs anyways, usually only at catcher for the throwing arm, seems to matter.

I have another example to post later too...

My way of approaching the defensive subs are a little different. A guy like Kiner I leave in the game and I deal with his defense. The bat is too valuable imo. For me, I like to use the defensive subs on one side of a platoon , or a hitter in the lower half of the order. Kiner would be my third or fourth hitter in most situations. Mostly it’d be my 6,7 or 8th hitters or 7/8/9 in dh leagues.

I agree with both of you. The only time I use a defensive sub is at catcher. A Molina in for Scioscia as an example. Most of the time my catchers are Pags or Pet or even Manwaring. I would much rather have the big bat in the game under any situation.

I also use defensive subs to prevent late game injuries to 15 game risks in a blowout.

I also use defensive subs to prevent late game injuries to 15 game risks in a blowout.

SS26 - How do you do that? I know there is the column that says Remove for Defensive Replacement with Lead, but doesn't that also include 2-1 leads, and not just 10-1 leads?

I agree with Hack that even giving HAL the temptation to do a defensive replacement is a bad idea. I learned this in one of my first leagues when I had the Big $$$, Big Bat, Bad D, Ted Williams. HAL kept taking him out for Ken Berry. I lost track of the number of times Ken Berry batted #3 for me in the 8th, 9th or Extra Innings. I ended up cutting him in favor of a bad glove OF'er and Ted batted a lot more in key situations. Ken Berry has not made one of my rosters since

I used to throw in the defensive subs at 4 or more positions with every lead I took into the 8th inning.

Not anymore. It isn't worth it. I leave the Kal Daniels and Jim Thomes right where they are.

Now my bench boys are lucky to see 50 AB all season.

I've noticed that HAL will sub some guys defensively if he feels like it. That's fine with me.

Looks like 8 of those Whitman at bats are as a starter. How many of the remaining 14 took place after the lead that led to the sub had been blown?

HAL's defensive sub logic has always appeared sound to me, more or less.

I also use defensive subs to prevent late game injuries to 15 game risks in a blowout.

SS26 - How do you do that? I know there is the column that says Remove for Defensive Replacement with Lead, but doesn't that also include 2-1 leads, and not just 10-1 leads?

I agree with Hack that even giving HAL the temptation to do a defensive replacement is a bad idea. I learned this in one of my first leagues when I had the Big $$$, Big Bat, Bad D, Ted Williams. HAL kept taking him out for Ken Berry. I lost track of the number of times Ken Berry batted #3 for me in the 8th, 9th or Extra Innings. I ended up cutting him in favor of a bad glove OF'er and Ted batted a lot more in key situations. Ken Berry has not made one of my rosters since

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER select remove for defensive sub with lead on the hitter settings page. If you do that, HAL does stupid stuff.

ONLY set your defensive replacements in the team settings by specifying the player to be inserted.

If you checkmark Remove for Defensive Sub with Lead, at least Hal always obeys. You are right in that it does leave the shifting to Hal, which can be a gamble. (Don't you love it when he throws a bench dude onto the field and then immediately replaces the dude with another dude, burning 2 bench guys?)

OTOH, there is absolutely no way of knowing how or when Hal will use any of your Team Strategy settings. For example, is there any point at all to listing a Pinch Runner? And what is the point of the Infield In setting? Does ATG even convert gb+ to SI** with Infield In, like in the board game? I have used it to try to defend against a small-ball team, but I chuckle to myself when changing it from the default 3rd Inning all the way to 1st Inning. "Ah, THIS will stop Cobb all right!"

I set it to 5th inning for EVERY team regardless of team construction.