Killebrew vs Hodges vs Mattingly for the Hall of Fame

The best argument I have heard about why Gil Hodges isn;t in the HOF was from Bill James "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame", a interesting book on the subject. He placed players in clusters based on similarity scores and Hodges was in a group that included Norm Cash, Adcock, Colavito, Foster, Horton, Lee May - none are in the HOF. All good players but not really great. HOF is for the best of the best. Hodges may get in because of his association with the Boys of Summer Dodgers and I think that has some historical significance even if his stats don't make him a clear choice

Thanks, Scumby. Here's another interesting one--

Hodges: vs a different Mystery Player (not in HOF)

.

273 ba .272 ba
.359 ob .370 ob
.487 slg .470 slg
120 OPS+ 127 OPS+
1921 hits 2446 hits
370 hr's 385 hrs
1274 rbi's 1384 rbis
1105 runs 1470 runs
63 sb' 78 sb

I will add that the Mystery Player was an outstanding fielder (8 GG) at a more important defensive position than 1b. (BTW, I can't seem to get any spaces between the columns of numbers. Suggestions?)

I would have no problem with Dwight Evans getting into the Hall of Fame.

I would have no problem with Dwight Evans getting into the Hall of Fame.

You got it! Strangely enough, Dewey got very little support from the BBWAA, dropping below 5% (and therefore out) after three rounds--but he was a much better player than many RFs in the HOF, and much better than Hodges, IMHO. Career WAR was 59.9 vs Gil's 44.9.

I guess Dewey will get his chance the next time the Committee for The Expansion Era—1973 and forward—meets, which I think is to elect the 2017 candidates. For 2014 induction the Committee cleared the shelf of extremely worthy managers: Torre, Cox & LaRussa. Next time, it will probably focus on players.

BTW, why this is called the Expansion Era I'm not quite sure, since expansion began in the bigs in 1961 and 62. But, hey, the HOF didn't ask me.

Hodges was a MUCH better player than Tony Perez who is in. much better runner and glove, hit 40 homers twice (Perez only once) comparable lifetime BA. hit 30 in a season more times than Perez too.


Mattingly seems to be suffering from having been the best Yankee during their WS drought in the '80s.


on the numbers, his biggest years, and considering his glove, seems he should be in. Career a little short, and had a power drop-off in his late 20s /early 30s when some guys seem to peak...

With all due respect to our own Hack Wilson. Why is Hack Wilson in the Hall of Fame? He did have six very productive seasons (Over 100 RBIs) but we all know why. That one season. That one magical season. Well one or two seasons does not make a Hall of Fame career.

I believe there's one big reason that Tony Perez is in the Hall of Fame: his 1652 RBI. That's a lot of RBI! It places him 20th on the HOF list for total RBI.

The BBWAA made him wait for 9 years, but they ultimately elected him because that stat is pretty hard to ignore. Perez is just behind Cal Ripken in RBI and immediately ahead of Banks, Goslin, Lajoie, Brett, Schmidt, Dawson, Hornsby, Kaline, Beckley, McCovey, Stargell and Dimaggio. That's pretty good company.

A secondary factor is that he's also in pretty good company because of his teammates on the Big Red Machine. In so far as there is "championship team" effect in HOF voting, that might well have had an impact on his election.

Now, whether 1652 RBI and association with a great team is a good enough reason to put Perez in the Hall is another question--but I'm pretty sure those two factors are the main reasons he's in.

Hodges's challenge is that he doesn't have any one outstanding stat or achievement that would really command voters' attention. He was an excellent fielder (but at a less important defensive position) and he was a very good player on a great team. Those are really Gil's talking points. On Monday, we'll know if these features will enough to get him elected to the HOF. If not, then it's "Wait til next year!"—or rather—"Wait until 2017."

I think it's a very fair addition to the current selection criteria. It also covers the "you had 5 REALLY amazing years' criteria, which allowed Koufax and Dean to get in.

I think what separates these 2 from others who had great 5 year runs is their runs were not sandwiched by an additional 5 years on either side of mediocrity. They had both established themselves as among top pitchers of their day before injury brought abrupt ends to careers. So there was no doubt considerable assumption by voters of what they would have been. Plus at the time they became eligible how great they had been was still fresh in the voters minds. 5 great years followed by 5 blah hears means those blah years blemish the memory of the voters.

As someone who watched Koufax pitch, you didn't need any numbers to tell you that he was a hall of fame pitcher.

As someone who watched Koufax pitch, you didn't need any numbers to tell you that he was a hall of fame pitcher.

Some of us aren't that old.
Did Walter Johnson make you feel the same way about the inaugural HOF class?

I believe there's one big reason that Tony Perez is in the Hall of Fame: his 1652 RBI. That's a lot of RBI! It places him 20th on the HOF list

I don't think 1274 (Hodges) is a shabby number of RBIs and I might suggest that Perez played 5 more seasons than Hodges and his last 6 were pretty much well over the hill, that gets Tony down to about 1472, then there are still the glove and running things

not to be argumentative but its the baseball hall of fame, not the RBI hall of larger stats totals.


Perez 162 game avg scraped from bbref:
162 634 570 74 159 29 5 22 96 3 2 54 109 .279 .341 .463 .804 122 264 16 3 1 6 9

Hodges:
162 634 550 86 150 23 4 29 100 5 74 89 .273 .359 .487 .846 120 268 13 2 4


Hodges actually averaged 4 more RBI AND 7 more taters per 162 game normalized season than Perez.

so I will repeat the baserunning and fielding weight that is ALL on Hodges' side, my opinion.