2013 Hall of Fame ballot

It definitely is PJ. It's the almighty home run. It has been so ingrained into our baseball history. Roger Maris was vilified for daring to break Babe Ruth's home run record. If we remembered yearly home run totals as poorly as we remember, say, rushing yards, I contend that this PED controversy would not be nearly as big a deal. Somebody quick, tell me how many yards Tony Dorsett had in 1980.

As I've said before, it's no big deal in the NFL. The Seahawks starting corners both tested positive (though one was overturned). The other guy was suspended 4 games, is now back and nobody cares.

Bonds hit 73 once. Otherwise, he was always a 35-45 homer guy.

It's interesting to look at the players implicated in the players named in the Mitchell report, or those who's names have been associated with using PEDs. The vast majority were pedestrian players, clearly the stuff didn't magically make you better. You had to already be an above average player to see any quantifiable effects from using the stuff. If you were a Bonds or a McGwire, then the results were pretty dramatic of course. But players who weren't already all-star quality didn't tend to get the magic bump that everyone seems to assume PEDs provide.

Brady Anderson 50 hrs?, Rafael Palmerio traded by the Cubs for his lack of power -then boom, Luis Gonzalez 57 hrs?I would say there were plenty of magic bumps

It definitely is PJ. It's the almighty home run. It has been so ingrained into our baseball history. Roger Maris was vilified for daring to break Babe Ruth's home run record. If we remembered yearly home run totals as poorly as we remember, say, rushing yards, I contend that this PED controversy would not be nearly as big a deal. Somebody quick, tell me how many yards Tony Dorsett had in 1980.

As I've said before, it's no big deal in the NFL. The Seahawks starting corners both tested positive (though one was overturned). The other guy was suspended 4 games, is now back and nobody cares.

I agree. The thing about HRs was the lack of statistical variance. players rarely topped 50. The NFL tinkered with rules so QBs can throw to wide open recievers all game long. people didn't care

Davey Johnson hit 43 homers one season, then went back to his regular 8-10.

Roger Maris' high total other than his 61 season was 39.

It's not hard to go through the history of baseball and find instances where a player had an extreme outlier, never to be approached again.

And, for what's it worth, Rafael Palmeiro was a professional hitter with one of the sweetest swings in baseball history. PEDs didn't give him that. I think that's what PJ is saying, and what I've argued for a long time. PEDs don't make marginal players superstars. I think some of the BBWAA members think if they would have taken steroids, they would have been MLB All-Stars.............

Good point about Maris. I'm sure there are plenty of other odd spikes throughout history.

I still think the best way to stick an asterisk on these players is to include a PED informational wing in the Hall. Let the fans cast judgement on how they got there, but based upon the performance on the field, I've long since accepted that Bonds and Clemens belong in the hall. I imagine the writers will come around on these two, and then have some healthy debate on the Sosas and McGwires and Palmeiros of the league.

Can you imagine Barry Bonds' acceptance speech? That'll be a spectacle if it ever comes to be.

Cheaters, willingly, unknowingly, doesnt matter. The HOF is the best of the best. There is no room for cheaters in the HOF...

That bein said:

Shoeless Joe- Its over 100 years, let him in.
Pete Rose- I do have a problem with someone that bet on his own team to win... just not everygame, what, didnt he have the money/credit with the bookies? However, 4000+ hits come on... You gonna tell me Ichiro doesnt belong in the HOF cause he didnt play his entire career in the US? He, is the only person who coulda sniffed Rose's record in our lifetime.

The Steriod era...

IMO, until the hall is broken down into era's, these cheaters dont belong in. Lance Armstrong lost everything, he was bicyclings Cal Ripken, if they can strip Lance, we dont hafta turn our heads to the steriod era...

Random thoughts...

Can you imagine a 100+ MPH fastball heading lord knows where, from the Unit, off a real pitchers mound? Remember.. they "leveled the playing field" when they dropped the mound so the hitters stood a better chance...

How does Morris' numbers stack up against those that pitched since the mound was lowered I wonder?

Pretty polarizing discussion. No concrete arguments one way or another. Seems to be a matter of opinion.

You are right PJ. Does seem to be a matter of opinion. Suspect those opinions are shaped by backgrounds.

My opinion has adjusted some over the years. Your statement would somewhat fit where I am currently leaning.

I still think the best way to stick an asterisk on these players is to include a PED informational wing in the Hall.

But who knows where I will be in a few years on the issue.

What will be interesting is what if the first player to get in the HOF is voted in while we were all certain they had been clean. Just for discussion what if Maddux, Glavine, or Thomas are voted in. And then a couple years later comes out and says well guys decided I need to confess something. Would everyone want to just remove them or let them stay? After all membership has always been for life. And what of the argument I am sure many would make that now that there is one in might as well vote the rest in? If more than half of players of that era as many widely claim were using, and especially if 90% were as some claim, it is bound to happen sooner or later a guilty one slips in since we have no way of knowing for sure who is guilty and who is not among those who never officially tested positive.