Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

I was reading a post from one of the Athletic writers, Marc Carig, with this title: Can you top the greatest starting lineup ever? "Something to pass the time.You must make the lineup for a baseball game that you absolutely must win."

This was his lineup:
LF Rickey
RF Ruth
CF Trout
1B Gehrig
3B Chipper
2B Hornsby
C Yogi
SS Wagner
P Pedro

Well, this got me thinking. Who are the candidates for best ever at each position. And when you consider lineup construction and the importance of baserunning and defense, of not allowing runs as well as scoring as many as you can, and also factoring in that we're talking about old-time pre-integration players playing with modern stars, This is who I'd consider at each position for greatest lineup:

C: Bench, Gibson, Piazza, Rodriguez, Berra, Carter
1B: Gehrig, Foxx, Pujols, McGwire, Greenberg, McCovey
2B: Hornsby, Morgan, Lajoie, Collins, Robinson, Sandberg
3B: Schmidt, Brett, Jones, Mathews, Beltre, Boggs
SS: Rodtiguez, Jeter, Wagner, Ripken, Larkin, Vaughan
LF: Bonds, Williams, Musial, Henderson, Yaz, Kiner
CF: Mantle, Mays, Trout, Cobb, Speaker, Griffey, DiMaggio
RF: Ruth, Aaron, Robinson, R Jackson, Walker, Ichiro, Ott
DH: Thomas, Cabrera, Thome, Sosa, Ramirez, Stargell, Martinez
SP: W Johnson, Martinez, R Johnson, Maddux, Clemens, Koufax
RP: Rivera, Hoffman, Wagner, Sutter, Gossage, Smith

My all-time lineup for a must-win game would be:
Morgan 2B
Bonds LF
T Williams DH
Ruth RF
Gibson C
Mantle CF
Gehrig 1B
Rodriguez SS
Schmidt 3B
Martinez SP
Rivera RP

I think that lineup would beat Mr. Carig's lineup more than 70% of the time.

supertyphoon wrote:I think that lineup would beat Mr. Carig's lineup more than 70% of the time.

Well, it definitely would if you were playing in Polo '41

I'm going to create a 6-team live draft league to have fun with this concept, I think $150 million cap would do.

Each team can take one and only one of the acknowledged greatest ever at each position, plus DH, four SP* starting pitchers among the list of greatest ever, and two RP only greatest ever. The rest of the team is filled out with sub-million backups and role players. No freak cards, no super relievers, just six of the best lineups possible duking it out for supremacy. Of course, Negro League stars Gibson, Charleston, Leonard,Stearnes, Wells, Paige and Williams as well.

Here's the career WAR (Baseball Reference) list by primary position (RP is saves):

C: Bench (75), Carter (70), Rodriguez (69), Fisk (69), Piazza (60), Berra (60)
1B: Gehrig (114), Pujols (101), Anson (97), Foxx (93), Connor (86), Brouthers (81), Bagwell (80),
2B: Hornsby (127), Collins (123), Lajoie (107), Morgan (101), Gehinger (84), Carew (81), Whitaker (75)
3B: Schmidt (107), Mathews (96), Beltre (94), Boggs (91), Brett (89), Jones (85), Robinson (79)
SS: Wagner (130), Rodriguez (118), Ripken (96), Davis (84), Vaughan (78), Yount (77), Appling (77), Smith (77)
LF: Bonds (163), Musial (128), Williams (122), Henderson (111), Yaz (97), Rose (80),
CF: Mays (156), Cobb (152), Speaker (134), Mantle (110), Griffey (84), DiMaggio (79), Trout (73)
RF: Ruth (162), Aaron (143), Ott (111), Robinson (107), Clemente (95), Kaline (93), Crawford (75)
DH: Molitor (76), Thomas (74), Thome (73), Cabrera (70), Ramirez (69), Martinez (68)

SP: Young (166), W Johnson (152), Clemens (139), Nichols (117), Alexander (116), Grove (113), Seaver (106),
Maddux (105), R Johnson (104), Mathewson (100), Niekro (97), Blyleven (96), Perry (93), Spahn (93), Keefe (89),
Plank (88), Martinez (86), Clarkson (85), Carlton (84), Ryan (84), Galvin (83), Roberts (83), Mussina (83),
Jenkins (82), Gibson (82), Schilling (81), McCormick (76), Glavine (74), Radbourn (73), Verlander (72), Hubbell (69)
RP: Rivera (652), Hoffman (601), Smith (478), Rodriguez (437), Franco (424), Wagner (422), Eckersley (390), Nathan (377), Papelbon (368), Reardon (367), Percival (368), Myers (347), Kimbrel (346), Fingers (341), Gossage (310), Sutter (300)

Here's the comparable career WAR (FanGraphs) list by primary position:

C: Bench (75), Carter (69), Rodriguez (69), Fisk (68), Piazza (64), Berra (64)
1B: Gehrig (116), Pujols (88), Anson (91), Foxx (102), Connor (86), Brouthers (80), Bagwell (80),
2B: Hornsby (130), Collins (121), Lajoie (102), Morgan (99), Gehinger (79), Carew (72), Frisch (75)
3B: Schmidt (107), Mathews (96), Beltre (84), Boggs (88), Brett (85), Jones (85), Robinson (80)
SS: Wagner (138), Rodriguez (114), Ripken (93), Davis (85), Dahlen (78), Jeter (73) Vaughan (73), Appling (73)
LF: Bonds (164), Musial (127), Williams (130), Henderson (106), Yaz (95), Rose (80), Delahanty (74)
CF: Mays (150), Cobb (149), Speaker (131), Mantle (112), Griffey (78), DiMaggio (83), Trout (73)
RF: Ruth (168), Aaron (136), Ott (111), Robinson (104), Clemente (81), Kaline (89), Waner (75)
DH: Molitor (68), Thomas (72), Thome (69), Cabrera (71), Ramirez (66), Martinez (66)

SP: Young (132), W Johnson (117), Clemens (134), Nichols (80), Alexander (97), Grove (89), Seaver (93),
Maddux (117), R Johnson (110), Mathewson (90), Niekro (79), Blyleven (103), Perry (101), Spahn (75), Keefe (70),
Sutton (86), Martinez (84), Clarkson (70), Carlton (97), Ryan (107), Roberts (75), Mussina (81),
Jenkins (81), Gibson (83), Schilling (80), Verlander (72), John (80), Smoltz (80), K Brown (77), Kaat (71)

If there is a player not listed here, such as Koufax or Greenberg for example, you feel qualifies as one of the top six at their position all time (or 24 SP / 12 RP), please post your list of top players on ILC thread.

Typhoons line-up seems a bit vulnerable to hard lefties.

Here's my actual lineup:

Wagner SS
Lajoie 2B
Ruth RF
Bonds LF
Hornsby DH (bc Ted Williams was a selfish oaf)
Gehrig 1B
Mantle CF
Gibson C
Schmidt 3B

I'd start Kershaw. He doesn't have a "daddy" he is afraid of. Rivera for sure in the pen.

Guys, you're not putting enough emphasis on NERP per dollar. I'll take my chances with:

DH Backman/Wiggins
2B Jose Vidro
RF That one Aaron card
C Smoky Burgess
LF Tommy Davis
1B Nate Colbert
SS Anyone but Rollins
CF Charles Gipson
3B Bobby Adams (but they're all overpriced)

SP Joel Pineiro
RP Dale Murray

I would join up, but here are a couple questions:

Are you locked in to the draft list provided? Mauer at catcher

What about the issue of "primary position" (Mays for example)

Can we switch out a different cap for a player? Ruth or Bonds

Is the rule that you stay with the player/price drafted?

Please advise.

Scott

Scott, I've been giving this some thought. I don't feel like it has to be "locked in". But I do feel like whatever 9-man lineup and pitching staff we use should be clearly among the best at their position. Mauer for example is OK. Some of the SPs with highest career WAR don't do well in the simulation. I get it. That's why I suggested those who sign up nominate on the ILC. I don't think position will be much of an issue. Carew for example could be considered one of the best 2B ever, but probably not one of the best 1B (not enough HRs in a power position). Baseball reference shows games played at each position, and I'd use that as a guide. A player you draft can be at whatever salary card you want as long as it's used in his primary position. Honus Wagner 1900 card wouldn't be allowed for example. Foxx and Ott shouldn't play 3B. To make this work, it shouldn't be prone to a 15 game injury if possible. Most of the greatest at each position have a good card like that, even catchers. We don't want the backups to get a lot of innings.