The Pre MLB players controversy.

As most people know, I am not a fan of the cards from the 1800s.... But whatever, people like them, I get it.. However, if we are looking at it from a strictly business perspective, they made the right choice offering the 1800s players as an option.

There are new (and younger) players giving this game a try all the time. They will be needed for this game not to die... People under 65, don't want to see the league leader in hitting be someone they have never heard of, that never even played MLB baseball.

Can we be real for one second? There is no way those guys from the 1800s would make MLB teams of today (sorry angry white guys like Droid), let alone lead the league in batting...

So play with those General Custer cards all you want. Make the Barnstompers Tournament use them, knock yourself out. Just don't ask the company to shoot itself in the foot over the 20 people who hold Ross Barnes in high regard.

Seriously, at least modern Japanese players are playing with three strikes and four balls. They weren't even playing real baseball in the 1880s.

Frankly it is insulting to insinuate those little midget white guys from the 1800s could play MLB. But it is even worse than that, we are supposed to believe Hugh Duffy and Ross Barnes would beat Ted Williams and Rod Carew for batting titles??

Who do you think most baseball fans care more about? ... Look I know you white guys like to hold onto your proud "heritage" or whatever, but you are doing the game a disservice .

As most people know, I am not a fan of the cards from the 1800s.... But whatever, people like them, I get it.. However, if we are looking at it from a strictly business perspective, they made the right choice offering the 1800s players as an option.

There are new (and younger) players giving this game a try all the time. They will be needed for this game not to die... People under 65, don't want to see the league leader in hitting be someone they have never heard of, that never even played MLB baseball.

Can we be real for one second? There is no way those guys from the 1800s would make MLB teams of today (sorry angry white guys like Droid), let alone lead the league in batting...

So play with those General Custer cards all you want. Make the Barnstompers Tournament use them, knock yourself out. Just don't ask the company to shoot itself in the foot over the 20 people who hold Ross Barnes in high regard.

Seriously, at least modern Japanese players are playing with three strikes and four balls. They weren't even playing real baseball in the 1880s.

Frankly it is insulting to insinuate those little midget white guys from the 1800s could play MLB. But it is even worse than that, we are supposed to believe Hugh Duffy and Ross Barnes would beat Ted Williams and Rod Carew for batting titles??

Who do you think most baseball fans care more about? ... Look I know you white guys like to hold onto your proud "heritage" or whatever, but you are doing the game a disservice .

Wow! What's the point with the hate? You're not even replying to anyone else's statements. You're writing to read yourself or to see what reaction your inflammatory statements can generate. I guess that makes me game.

As most people know, I am not a fan of the cards from the 1800s.... But whatever, people like them, I get it..

I think you don't get it, actually. But, it makes you feel better to say that up front.

However, if we are looking at it from a strictly business perspective, they made the right choice offering the 1800s players as an option.

That may be true. Being responsive to their customers is a standard best practice in business. But, I say again, what's up with the vitriol? And, what's your point?

There are new (and younger) players giving this game a try all the time. They will be needed for this game not to die... People under 65, don't want to see the league leader in hitting be someone they have never heard of, that never even played MLB baseball.

Is the game dying? Where do you get your information? SOM is a private company and I never see them reveal anything about how they are doing financially. SI did a piece on Richman several years ago where Hal made minimal tangible reference to the company's success. NYT had an interview in 2007 with Hal where they discussed succession. Hal revealed nothing except his getting older. Glassdoor suggests they have less then 50 employees and do $ 1 - 5 million annually. I doubt that's based on any actual data. Nerdyhire.com has had job postings for SOM.

SOM took the computer platform back from SN, which would have been an expense, and they've attempted to develop a fantasy variation (classic SOM is a turn-based simulation) to compete better in the real-time space. Looking at the Manager Records and counting championships gives some insight on the number of leagues they've had. Every indication suggests they are successful and sustainable.

Have you taken a poll to see what people under 65 think about baseball history? Ruth died in 1948. He never faced modern pitching, specialist relievers, analytics, or public and corporate scrutiny like we've seen in the last 50 years. Do you think he would perform the same, today? He probably wouldn't have made it through the minors with his attitude and behavior. But, he gets drafted a lot, doesn't he. Is there anyone from 60 to 100 or more years ago in any athletic endeavor who would perform well, today? Red Grange, Jim Brown, Wilt, Butkus, Hogan, Owens. Maybe. I think Wilt would have. But, he wouldn't have averaged 44 - 50 points a game with 25 rebounds. There are quarterbacks, today, who are bigger than most lineman from the 50s and 60s. Most younger people I know under the age of 30 - 35 have very little interest in any history except the most well known. They've heard of Mantle and Dimaggio. But, not Mize or Musial or Feller or Chandler.

By the way, MLB considers the National Association and the 1900's National League to be MLB. I know they should be consulting with you on that.

Can we be real for one second? There is no way those guys from the 1800s would make MLB teams of today (sorry angry white guys like Droid), let alone lead the league in batting...

Again, no athlete or athletic endeavor was the same 75 - 150 years ago. Training, diet, technology, public scrutiny, etc. Of course, those folks would have had access to the same modern training and diet and technology if they played today. Maybe that would have translated to them being competitive and superior to their peers, now, just like it did back then. Or maybe not....

... angry white guys? Where did that come from?? Oh, right. That's Droid's fault. He made you write that.

So play with those General Custer cards all you want. Make the Barnstompers Tournament use them, knock yourself out. Just don't ask the company to shoot itself in the foot over the 20 people who hold Ross Barnes in high regard.

"Just don't ask the company to shoot itself in the foot." I hope you are getting paid well for the advice you provide to SOM.

Seriously, at least modern Japanese players are playing with three strikes and four balls. They weren't even playing real baseball in the 1880s.

Must have been fake baseball.

Frankly it is insulting to insinuate those little midget white guys from the 1800s could play MLB. But it is even worse than that, we are supposed to believe Hugh Duffy and Ross Barnes would beat Ted Williams and Rod Carew for batting titles??

More about white guys. And now, we don't like midgets, either. And, you're the one who's insulted?
I'm sorry you're such a victim.

"...Hugh Duffy and Ross Barnes ..." You can believe whatever you want. I think you already do.

Who do you think most baseball fans care more about? ... Look I know you white guys like to hold onto your proud "heritage" or whatever, but you are doing the game a disservice.

More white guys and their proud heritage, this time. I think I'm picking up on a pattern, here. I think the game is probably just fine without your judgmentalism.

He can't help it ... Constantly plays the race card even though IMHO he's the biggest racist in the community and is constantly complaining about OTHERS being racist.

They're just SOM cards guys - get over it.

- The Sheik

Mr. Brown is attributing racism to player selection in a statistical simulation. No one is arguing that players from the earlier era do not shape up to modern athletes. The entire premise of ATG is "what if?" For example, I really got into baseball as a young adult in the 80s. That's my era. Ryne Sandberg is my guy. My youngest son is named after him. I love Rickey, and Raines, and Jack Morris, and Sid, Doc, and a host of others.

But I also love Carlos Baerga, Evan Longoria, Javier Baez, Cutch, and Jose Ramirez. I like seeing Gaspar, Bloodworth and Chico on my bench. When I choose Hrabosky, I can still see him going through his crazy routine before slinging it in there. I love the elegant excellence of Koufax and Mussina. Marichal's "kitchen sink" reportoire. I love "The Can," "The Man," and Stan the Man Unusual. I think racist Ty Cobb can suck it, but I'll never deny him being in the top 10 players who ever played the game (and the best hitter of his era, hands down). I think Ted Williams, in his prime, would still sock 40 HRs, because, as John Kruk, Jose Altuve, and a host of others have shown us, body type doesn't matter. If you can hit, you can hit.

In short, it isn't about making a philosophical statement. You do that with the way you live your life, and how you treat others. This is just a dice simulation that's intended to be fun.

Tangent: Can you please stop assuming everybody here is waving Dixie and subscribes to the alt right. I served in the Army for 8 years, and have taught at Title I public schools for most of my 23 years teaching. My friends and colleagues have always included non-whites. I went to high school at a minority-majority campus, played 3 sports alongside buddies with names like Gamez, Lopez and Hernandez. My best friend was named Jaime. My brown-skinned daughter is the product of a mixed marriage, which indicates to me that my daughter was raised without prejudice. I've read Baldwin, and Haley, and Coates, and Richard Wright. Jackie Robinson is more than just a ballplayer to me -- he's a goddamned true American hero.

Short version: Stop broad-brushing the entire community. Folks want the pre-1900 players because they want the pre-1900 players. That's all there is to it.

Thanks for indulging, and apologies for any offense. I'm just tired of this shit.

E

P.S. I do think it would be a capital idea if we could ban the jackasses whose team mascots are the "All Whites," and other similar BS. I had to disown family members for attitudes like that.

P.P.S. All this about a game reminds me of the arguments that take place about racism in Dungeons & Dragons because Orcs are painted as "evil." So, there's another hobby of mine that some are taking too damned seriously.

Mr Brown. All you are doing by CONSTANTLY beating the same dead horse is alienating yourself from you peers. Are you somehow related to my wife per chance? I'm guessing that this is the reaction you're going for anyway, as if anybody really cares.

Mr Brown. All you are doing by CONSTANTLY beating the same dead horse is alienating yourself from you peers. Are you somehow related to my wife per chance? I'm guessing that this is the reaction you're going for anyway, as if anybody really cares.

The "boomers" that you are so disparaging of probably did more for civil rights than any generation in history!

Radagast has so much hatred for The Last Druid... just can't help himself...

this is just ass-I-ten.

Racism is a serious thing that has hurt a LOT of people.

If someone actually did care about racism they would not subvert it for their own purposes.

In the meantime there's plenty of ageism with the anti-boomer bs to go around- and once again- im not a boomer- but damn, why is it a bad thing if one is?