Defensive Replacements or Defensive Sabotage?

I'm playing in my first league. ATG 8. $80 million. 12 teams.

In game one of last night's series, Tony Perez '75 hits a clutch 3 run homer in the bottom of the 8th to put me up one going to the top of the 9th.

Bobby Knoop pinch hit in the bottom of the 8th and is the logical choice to stay in the game and replace Davey Johnson at 2B, since Knoop is a defensive 1 vs. Davey as a defensive 3.

Nope.

HAL puts Deron Johnson in at 1B (3-e8) , to replace Tony Perez (3-e11). Minimum improvement at best. It then decides to take Paul Molitor out at 3B (4-e31) and move Tony Perez to 3B (5-e65.)

But it gets better.

HAL does take Davey Johnson out at 2B, but replaces him BY MOVING ERIC DAVIS FROM CF TO 2B. Eric Davis is a 1-e10 in CF, but since he doesn't play 2B, he goes there with a 5-e71. Brilliant! But now we need a CF, so let's put Frank Taveras in CF. But since Frank doesn't play CF, he goes there with a 5-e25.

Let's recap those defensive replacements...

First base -> 3-e11 to 3-e8.
Second base-> 3-e32 to 5-e71
Third base -> 4-e31 to 5-e65
Centerfield -> 1-e10 to 5-e25
Removing Bobby Knoop from the game, who plays second base with a 1-e16.


Sure enough, two outs in the top of the 9th with a man on first, CF(x) gets rolled and it's a run scoring triple. I go on to lose in the 11th.

WTF?

I only have 2 defensive replacements set. Put Edgar Renteria in at SS if he's not already in the game; same with Bobby Knoop at 2B.

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1560848

There is always an answer--even if a screwed up one.

What were all of your player settings--that entire page of hitter settings plus the team strategy page could make for a strange set of business rules.
It did not have to be limited to defensive issues--it could have been related to other hitter setting combos. Would have to know all of them to unravel it.

Looked at the game--a lot of activity so would have to know all the settings.

HAL does not always act reliably or predictably with double switch situations. In some cases, the order of defensive replacements listed matters. You should read the rules wiki at Fandom regarding the settings. Off the top of my head I couldn't offer you a definitive solution so as to avoid it next time.

But for all that PH activity, it would seem maybe you should be setting more defensive rules than you have. But again--take a nother look at the wiki first. Someone here will figure it out but prob will need all the data.

Don't worry--it isn't always that bad, and it is bad equally when it is bad. . Like George Castanza and Jerry Seinfeld, everything will even out eventually!

The goal is to give HAL as little opportunity to decide anything. The simpler the better

Do you have "Remove for Def Sub with Lead" checked for Davey Johnson? If so, it can lead to chaos like this. I never check those boxes. I just list the Defensive Subs in the Team Strategy page.

Thanks DJMACB - I did have it set to remove Davey Johnson for defense. And another player, as well.

Those setting are now turned off!

Holy crap - what a disaster.

Do you have "Remove for Def Sub with Lead" checked for Davey Johnson? If so, it can lead to chaos like this. I never check those boxes. I just list the Defensive Subs in the Team Strategy page.

What he said.

NEVER check those boxes. HAL will do all kinds of crazy crap if you tell him to. And it is quite often a domino effect.

It's OKAY to assign a defensive sub via the team settings. For example if Knoop was on your bench, it would be smart to tell HAL to use him as a defensive sub at 2B via the TEAM STRATEGY PAGE.

BUT NEVER NEVER EVER set a guy to be removed for a defensive sub on the hitter preferences page. You will almost always regret it.

Do you have "Remove for Def Sub with Lead" checked for Davey Johnson? If so, it can lead to chaos like this. I never check those boxes. I just list the Defensive Subs in the Team Strategy page.

What he said.

NEVER check those boxes. HAL will do all kinds of crazy crap if you tell him to. And it is quite often a domino effect.

It's OKAY to assign a defensive sub via the team settings. For example if Knoop was on your bench, it would be smart to tell HAL to use him as a defensive sub at 2B via the TEAM STRATEGY PAGE.

BUT NEVER NEVER EVER set a guy to be removed for a defensive sub on the hitter preferences page. You will almost always regret it.

Yup.
And hey I don't even set bullpen rules either, and am very happy with HAL in that area. Less is more when it's individual hitter or pitcher settings.

I would blame the manager, Mick.

Just to clarify why everyone is recommending that we should not check "Remove for Def Sub with Lead" under hitter preferences, it might be helpful if I give an example.
Let's say you have Mariano Duncan at 2B, platooning vs LHP with a superior defensive 2B such as Robinson Cano, who is hitting vs RHP. Now let's say you check "Remove for Def Sub with Lead". Seems logical enough, since Cano is a much better defensive player. But then, let's suppose further that Duncan pinch hits for Cano against a LHP, and he gets a hit that gives your team the lead. At this point, Duncan is your best remaining defensive 2B, and also your best remaining hitter at 2B

But, since you've checked that "remove for def sub" box, HAL is now looking around for a defensive replacement for Duncan. And at this point Cano, your desired defensive sub, is already out of the game. HAL will feel forced by that check-box to put some completely inappropriate guy in at 2B, since HAL treats this check-boxes as hard requirements. This can lead to some pretty strange outcomes, since HAL is facing contradictory pressures.

Let's compare this with using the team strategy page, as others have recommended. Here you can designate Cano as your defensive replacement at 2B. In a situation where Cano is already out of the game because Duncan has pinch-hit for him, HAL notes that Cano is out and doesn't do anything. Problem solved.

Thanks for a very clear explanation, OL, especially for those of us who are new to the on-line version of SOM.