Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and Sosa are finally no longer on the ballot, they failed to overcome objections from their numerous critics. In two weeks the results will be announced, so we'll be hearing more about this next couple of days. The list of names is uninspiring, the only no-doubt candidate, A-Rod, has the same problem as Bonds and Clemens. You can include Manny Ramirez in that group as well. Only first year guy with much support will be Carlos Beltran, but then there's that Astros sign stealing scandal. So if there's a bunch of writers who fill up their ballot with the maximum, who gets in? Scott Rolen? Billy Wagner? Todd Helton? We may end up with another shutout this year, with Fred McGriff the only one getting immortalized.

...We may end up with another shutout this year, with Fred McGriff the only one getting immortalized.

^^^This.^^^

I think Helton deserves some serious consideration.

Rolen could sneak in this year but it's shaping up to be a shutout but with Rolen, Helton, Wagner, and Beltran on their way to future induction, Andruw and Sheffield also over 50% and gaining momentum. All those guys are worthy apart from Wagner IMO, I think it's silly to put relievers in the Hall, with the obvious very few exceptions.

This guy crunches the odds based on the publicly revealed ballots: https://twitter.com/sarsdell

Wouldn't bother me if it is a shutout.
Over time, the bar just gets lower and lower, which means
the designation means less and less.
I think Rolen will certainly make it at some point, as he was an all around player, the
question with Helton of course is Coors--take a look at this article, with particular note to the quote below it

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/todd-he ... lton%20had,)%20than%20strikeouts%20(1%2C175).

First of all, Helton had a career slash line of .316 BA/.414 OBP/.539 SLG with more walks (1,335) than strikeouts (1,175). For players with at least 9,000 plate appearances, there are just seven players in baseball history to post a slash line that good with more walks than K’s. Those seven are Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Stan Musial, and Helton. The first six are not just Hall of Famers but all-time greats.

Actually the voters' standard has gotten higher, especially for pitchers. Post-expansion players have by far the worst representation when you consider how many more teams/players there are now. Pre-integration players are the most overrepresented.

egvrich wrote:I think Helton deserves some serious consideration.

Even though in STRAT he happens to be a major bust, at least every time I tried him (no more !!!), and the fact that he played in Coors...

He helped Larry Walker...

I agree with Rich... he deserves serious consideration...

If we're gonna start talking Rolen, it's about time Ron Cey gets some respect!

STEVE F wrote:If we're gonna start talking Rolen, it's about time Ron Cey gets some respect!

But that, in my opinion, is the problem. Rolen was clearly a very good third basemen with a long career and a reputation as a stellar defender. But he's also clearly not in the same class as another Phillies 3rd baseman, Mike Schmidt. That's the difference between great, an obvious hall of famer, and very good. Do we recognize everyone who was very good (large hall proponents) or the all-time greatest (small hall guys). If Ron Santo is in, then why not Rolen? And if Rolen is in, why not Ron Cey? If Fred McGriff and Harold Baines are in, why not Carlos Delgado or Juan Gonzalez? It seems illogical that the very best, with all-time records, like Bonds, Clemens and Rose are excluded but other guys way down in the middle of the pack career-wise or good-field no-hit types like Mazeroski or Aparicio are included.

Santo and Rolen are two of the top 10 third basemen of all time. Any Hall that excludes them would be ridiculously small. Cey, Delgado, and McGriff are closer to borderline. Baines and JuanGon probably don't belong.

The HOF already includes 276 players, so any inquiry into adding someone should start with "does he have a credible case for being one of the top 276 players all-time?" By that standard Santo and Rolen are clearly, easily deserving. And that's not "Big Hall," that's just maintaining current standards. Don't gotta make Baines the standard just because a not-very-bright committee voted him in.