Negro league renewed stats now included, will Hal adjust

I am sure everyone has heard that MLB is including more statistics for negro league players. Will Hal and John G. consider coming out with new cards for these new cards and leaders? Incredible stats for Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, Chino Smith, Satchel Paige. In 1944 Satchel had an ERA of 1.01. I am sure there are many more statistics to be considered. I had discussions with Scott Simkus years ago. He was involved with Strat and helped gather data for the inclusion of NL cards. Just asking. Would like to see many more cards revisited and included.

Single-season batting average

Josh Gibson — .466 (1943)
Charlie “Chino” Smith — .451 (1929)
Hugh Duffy — .440 (1894)
Oscar Charleston — .434 (1921)
Charlie Blackwell — .432 (1921)
Oscar Charleston — .427 (1925)
Mule Suttles — .425 (1926)

Single-season slugging percentage

Josh Gibson — .974 (1937)
Mule Suttles — .877 (1926)
Josh Gibson — .871 (1943)
Charlie “Chino” Smith — .870 (1929)
Barry Bonds — .863 (2001)

Single Season on-base percentage

Barry Bonds — .609 (2004)
Barry Bonds — .582 (2002)
Josh Gibson — .564 (1943)

Single-season OPS

Josh Gibson — 1.474 (1937)
Josh Gibson — 1.435 (1943)
Barry Bonds — 1.4217 (2004)

Single-season ERA

Tim Keefe — 0.86 (1880)
Dutch Leonard — 0.96 (1914)
Satchel Paige — 1.01 (1944)

Very interesting. It would be great if the cards were updated.

It’s not surprising to see how all the percentage leaders had a big change, when sample size is taken into consideration. Most NeL seasons were 1/3 the length of MLB. More games means those percentages start to fall pretty quickly.

excellent points Andy, those along with other reason are why emotional pleas or arguments normally don't hold water to actual statistical analysis

As far as Strat cards go, I like what Strat did with some of the NeL superstars, like Josh Gibson. Those cards took seasons with small sample size and extrapolated them out to a longer season, like they did recently with the 2020 Imagined set, carrying the 60 game season out to a 162 game season, with some downturns in percentage stats.
For instance, in that 2020 Imagined Set, Freddie Freeman hit 36 HR, 131 RBI, and slashed .314/.425/.586.
(He really hit 13 HR, 53 RBI, and slashed .341/.462/.640 in the Covid-shortened 60-game 2020 season.)

Josh Gibson's 1937 Strat-created card has 39 HR, 120 RBI, and a slash line of .351/.440/.677 in 133 games (which they didn't come close to actually playing). An awesome card for an awesome player.
However, his new actual NeL stats on baseball-reference are based on 39 games (39!), with 20 HR, 70 RBI, and a slash line of .417/.500/.974.

Gibson and the other NeL deserve their place in history and they deserve GREAT Strat cards that rank them with the best who ever played the game. But, IMO, they DON'T need a Josh Gibson who hit .466 in 69 games. That is highly unrealistic. It's all about sample sizes.

Absolutely honor the recognition aspects, but the short sample sizes and extrapolating/projecting are troubling for a fundamentally data-driven game. As Andy noted, highly unrealistic to have a Josh Gibson card hitting .466 with power. I think we're in a quandary amid groupthink pressure -- who gets to decide and why and what metrics are they using to reconcile this? Just saying...I don't want to play with make-believe cards.

Point, counter point. Guy Hecker played on the Louisville Eclipse. He appeared in 13 games and the season was 80 games in length. And we have a $9.38 mil card. Hmmm, I understand emotions, but I draft Hecker all the time in the first 5 or 6 rds of All time great games. How does Hal handle the Pre 1900 cards, which we use and play against all time greats from every era. Just a question.

Hugh Duffy's 1894 card was played in a 132 game season where he hit .440 with 237 hits. And Ross Barnes played in a 60 game season hitting .431 for the Boston Red Stockings. 11 mil card. AND HIS CARD HAS ZERO INUURIES!!!!! CRAZY. USE HIM ALL THE TIME. How did Hal and Jon G. work that out.

Dennis

Point, counter point. Guy Hecker played on the Louisville Eclipse. He appeared in 13 games and the season was 80 games in length. And we have a $9.38 mil card. Hmmm, I understand emotions, but I draft Hecker all the time in the first 5 or 6 rds of All time great games. How does Hal handle the Pre 1900 cards, which we use and play against all time greats from every era. Just a question.

Hugh Duffy's 1894 card was played in a 132 game season where he hit .440 with 237 hits. And Ross Barnes played in a 60 game season hitting .431 for the Boston Red Stockings. 11 mil card. AND HIS CARD HAS ZERO INUURIES!!!!! CRAZY. USE HIM ALL THE TIME. How did Hal and Jon G. work that out.

Dennis

Yeah, but those guys were white, so........

Andy doesn't have a problem with Hugh Duffy but he will have a problem with the NeL cards. His record on this is clear.

I don't speak for Andy, but I will say that he has never been a big fan of adding pre-1900 cards, especially those from pre-1894.

To try to make it about race is ridiculous. We worked with Strat getting the 8 all-time Negro League teams added to the set.

I'm not at all opposed to more cards from the Negro Leagues, as long as they have the necessary PAs or IPs to qualify. Many of the cards are not available though. Strat only has some of the Negro League seasons available, not all.