ATG VII

Will the semifinal and championship rounds be ATG VI or ATG VII?

I'm sure it will continue in ATG6........ATG7 probably wont roll out til after the first of the year

Mr BBW and I have sent a query to the boys at SOM and hopefully Bernie will give us the scoop. Logically we would remain on ATG6 for the Semi's and Finals. I sure hope they give us that chance. That would sure be irresponsible of them to dump it on us suddenly and without recourse. If history is any indication, (although we dont really have a history with SOM) like andy said - they usually either run them in parallel (VI/VII) or will delay the rollout.

We are certainly making our wishes known to them.

SOM has just told us that they will leave the other game out there completely intact and unchanged at the same time, so we have our answer.

Well wait wait wait, are you saying that we should continue using ATG 6? If so I disagree. I'm tired of Arky and those joke cards deciding the fate of Barnstormers. If we must continue using ATG 6, I say we ban the 4 juiced cards.

Either way, NO FANTASIM cards.

I think it's a little absurd to imply that expertise in Barnstormers hangs on the use of 4 cards.

Since we have a newly assembled board now in place, this would be the perfect agenda item for them to rule on. All I am waiting on is the private forum that SOM was going to create for the board. I should get the answer on this soon. We still have some time before the semi-finalists are completly known.

Edited since my previous opinion here is now moot since the board will decide this completely.

From the Barnstormer Tournament rules:

If the Sporting News (TSN) releases a significant upgrade to the ATG Game (for example, ATG Version 6) during the Barnstormers Tournament, we will upgrade to the most current version of the game at the next event, as all Barnstormers Tournaments have done in the past. (emphasis added)

I don't know why everybody is suddenly so warm and fuzzy about ATG6. People have done nothing but complain about the fantasim cards since the inception of ATG6. Now that the problem has been remedied and the player pool enhanced, all of a sudden people want to continue to use ATG6? That makes absolutely no sense.

As the rules state, all Barnstormers Tournaments have upgraded to the most current version of the game at the next event. In Barnstormers 2011, every time more player cards were added to ATG6, they were usable at the next BSers event, INCLUDING the semis, which used the then newly issued Vaughan and Lajoie fantasim cards. Further, the 2011 BSers FInals used the then newly issued Dickey and Mathews fantasim cards.

All told, during BSers 2011, 139 new player cards were added to the ATG6 player set from the time the tournament began to the time the Finals started and ALL newly added player cards were usable in the next event. Further, the newly added player cards were mostly great seasons for HOF or All-Star caliber players and changed the character of the ATG6 card set, making it much easier to win with a "smallball" team. As a matter of fact, a smallball team went on to win the Finals, with two players, Delahanty and Chance, added to the player card set AFTER the tournament began:

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/378402

The runner up had 3 players, Murray, Hamilton and Vaughan, added to the player card set AFTER the tournament began:

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/378336

In fact, most, if not all, teams in the Finals had players that were added to the card set during the course of the tournament.

A complete list of all the cards added to ATG6 and the release dates of such can be seen at the following link:

http://somonline.wikia.com/wiki/All-Tim ... _VI:_Cards

While the Barnstormers has always embraced the newest game and their changes as soon as it's been released, it's only common sense that if ALL of the previous events were held on ATG6 - that the SEMIS and FINALS follow suit.

Of the 139 new player cards added to ATG6 during the BSers 2011 tourney, 59 new player cards were added AFTER the 6 qualifying leagues, yet all 59 cards were used with no questions asked in the Semis and Finals.

Now comes ATG7 in 2012.

ATG VII adds 200 new cards selected entirely from wish lists gathered from the ATG community, including improvements for 4 old cards* that we've been wanting to replace for a while. Otherwise, the set is the same as ATG VI, with all the same card salaries, so you won't lose a step.

(emphasis added)

While at first blush it appeared that 200 new players were a lot to add to the ATG series, unlike the vast majority of the 139 players added to ATG6 during BSers 2011, there are few, if any, impact players among the 200 new cards, as there were cards released at all price levels. Even a cursory review of the newly added player cards reveals that only 40-50 cards AT MOST have a chance to be used regularly at a $100 mil cap, and there are few, if any, true impact players in the card set. The phrase "quantity, not quality" comes immediately to mind when reviewing the cards.

Although Strat-o-matic calls it ATG7, in reality, it's more like ATG6.01, as the prices of more than 4,000 existing players remain EXACTLY the same, 200 mostly insignificant cards were added and 4 corrected cards were issued. Further, of the potential impact players added, most (Mike Schmidt and Al Simmons, for example) are only slight improvements over existing cards.

Rick, everyone understands that it's a tough job organizing and running the BSers tournament, and any decision you make is going to be scrutinized, but methinks that your decision to use the ATG6 cards in the Semis and Finals is more of a knee jerk reaction to the release of 200 mostly non-impact new player cards and ignores Barnstormer rules and past BSers precedent while perpetuating a mistake on 4 cards that has no basis in baseball historical fact and unfairly and unrealistically skews outcomes. The fact of the matter is that the BSers tourney has ALWAYS embraced new card releases and that the 59 new ATG6 player cards used only in the BSers 2011 Semis & Finals without question were of far greater impact than the 200 additional new player cards in ATG7. Moreover, more than 95% of the cards remain the same in ATG7 compared to ATG6. To attempt to justify the continued use of ATG6 in the Semis and Finals not only ignores all of the above, but is akin to making up the rules as you go along.

Further, every time new player cards were added to ATG6, many BSers managers immediately joined other leagues to get a "feel" for the new player cards prior to using the cards in the tourney. It was a win-win situation, being good for business and good for the tournament. Continued use of ATG6 in the tourney will result in lost revenue for SOM and less "buzz" about the the tourney.

Lastly, if one of the goals of the BSers tourney is to recognize managerial excellence across a variety of formats and variable circumstances, doesn't an evolving player pool qualify as one more variable? If anything, the new player cards in ATG7 serve to level the playing field and make for more even competition, as there are more cards available to serve particular playing styles.

For the foregoing reasons, I respectfully request that the BSers tourney use the ATG7 cards in the Semis and Finals. - Bernie W

This "people" would prefer ATG7 for the same reasons...but if it has to be a board decision then I guess it's a board decision.

A compromise position would be using ATG7 simply to eliminate the inflated FantaSim cards that most agree shouldn't have been there in the first place, while blacklisting the 200 new cards. Gut feeling is ATG7 will have an insignificant impact on game play, as most of the new cards will be ignored or rarely used anyway. The championship rounds will probably not be decided by the 200 new cards, but it could be decided by the 4 old cards.

While the board waits for the private forum that SOM has promised us, I have presented the three options to the board by e-mail. I will leave three voting choices in their hands.

1. Use ATG-VII for the semi's and finals
2. Use ATG-VI for the semi's and finals and block the 4 fantasim cards
3. Use ATG-VI with no changes.

As usual, I vote only to break a tie.

Keep in mind, that with the Finals being a live draft, Diamond Dope will need to be upgraded to ATG-VII with all those players. Adrian has not expressed interest in this and has talked about dropping DD completely.

This is a STRONG ARGUMENT for why we may need to stay on ATG-VI for this years finals and the board has been reminded of this.

I have asked the board for their PUBLIC OPINION and VOTE and will either ask that they publish it here or I will copy it here.