2013 Hall of Fame ballot

PJ wrote

Let the players vote, get the writers out of the equation.

Well isn't the "old timers" voted on by retired players? Then you have to put up with the Joe Morgan's of the retirees who think no 2B should get in unless they live up to his stats. Let's face it, it's a flawed system. Always has been , always will be.

I'll just be happy to see Maddox, Glavine and Thomas in next year and especially the Big Hurt. I remember the 1st game he played with the Sox. I thought to myself, " man, this guy is huge". Then he pummeled the ball for 10 yrs like Ruth, Aaron,and DiMaggio. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but Frank was fun to watch hit the baseball. I remember watching a game with Hawk Harrelson and Tom Paciorek doing the play by play. It sort of went like this:

Tom : And there's Big Frank in the on deck circle with that weight problem
Hawk: What are you taking about, Frank isn't over weight he's just a big man
Tom: No, I mean that wait problem, he can't wait to get in the batter's box and swing the bat

That's just the thing. Doesn't Frank go off the charts in the writer's "sniff" test? He's huge, he must have been juicing right?

The reality is there is no way to know who used these substances and who didn't unless we have a few cups of pee that showed up on the test of the day. The world tried to catch Lance for how many years and they still haven't officially caught him. Do I think he cheated? Absolutely. That's how hard it is to prove. How did Tommy Glavine manage to throw 4000 innings? Magic arm? Just got enough to get his 300 wins. Coincidence? If I was a baseball writer, that smells of steroids...but then again, he was a nice guy who gave me quotes so he's okay.

I'm a fan of the pride of Billerica, and of a lot of other guys from this era, but I could never say for certain who used something and who didn't. The baseball writers are declaring that now, and that makes them hypocrites or fools, take your pick.

Perhaps it is really all Bud Selig's fault. Shoeless Joe isn't in the Hall because Judge Landis threw him out of baseball; Pete Rose isn't there because Bart Giamatti declared him ineligible. Because the present commissioner ducked the PED issue at every possible opportunity, MLB did nothing to solve the problem--and, until we get a commissioner with a hint of guts, the cases of Bonds, Clemens et al never will be resolved. I don't blame the baseball writers (though I do know personally a couple I consider to be fools and/or hypocrites) and I don't blame the moralists. I blame today's version of Major League Baseball.

PJ...Actually Frank was one of the guys saying everyone should be tested. He said when he was playing he thought guys were doing something. He wanted testing in the '90. 6'5" and 260 lbs. He was big in HS, in College. I truly believe Frank didn't juice at all. I don't think Maddox or Glavine did either. I'm pretty sure that none of these guys have ever been under suspicion for juicing.

Many juiced by chewing tobacco which is a PED also even if not currently categorized as such, i.e. to increase alertness and help concentrate at the plate. They should remove all these guys from the Hall too for their use of PED's.

I think The Big Hurt was a freshman on the Auburn football team. He played tight end.

I think it was the same team that Bo Jackson was on, as a junior.

I realize Frank Thomas was a football player, and asked for testing, but how does that absolve him of any doubt when it was clear the union and the league weren't going after anyone anyway? Clemens said he didn't do it too.

Again, we'll never know. All we can do is accuse here. And, since Petro brings up the alternative PEDs, does medicine count too? Does Tommy John surgery count as a PED? How many of these guys would sniff the hall if not for the advances in medicine and training that were not available to Smoky Joe Wood back in his day? How about eyes? Lasik surgery anyone?

Some PED users are easily identifiable. You are not supposed to go from 35-40Hrs a year to 70 like Bonds did at an advanced age for baseball and go from 165-170 Lbs to solid 220's like Sosa did as an adult or lose drastic weight and muscle definition like Bagwell & Pudge Rodriguez did w/o some foreign substances being ingested - thats how you know they used. There are some others that fall under this cloud (specifically Piazza) but I think eventually he will get in.

I don't understand the argument that players are in the Hall who took greenies, corked the bat, stealed signs, were degenerate alcoholics, racists and beat their wives and are in the HOF - so we should put this crooked generation in the Hall as well? Well, two wrongs don't make a right but that is where we are in our society today, justifying behaviors to fit our own morally warped agendas. No wonder kids are so screwed up-the adults act like kids! BTW, greenies aren't the same as taking steroids. If it were the same, we would have had more 50-70 hr hitters in before the 90's Yes, I can see Omar Moreno taking greenies....and hitting 60 homeruns a year & Willie Wilson hit one 500 ft! There is always a certain level of gamesmanship in all sports, but steroids basically made the game a farce. Did America buy into it? Big time, especially when Sosa & McGwire put on their freak show - hindsight is 20/20 but an example is being made by the writers of the steroid era and their path will not be easy. Joe Jackson was made an example and so will this generation - no one is above the game.

Bonds hit 73 once. Otherwise, he was always a 35-45 homer guy.

It's interesting to look at the players implicated in the players named in the Mitchell report, or those who's names have been associated with using PEDs. The vast majority were pedestrian players, clearly the stuff didn't magically make you better. You had to already be an above average player to see any quantifiable effects from using the stuff. If you were a Bonds or a McGwire, then the results were pretty dramatic of course. But players who weren't already all-star quality didn't tend to get the magic bump that everyone seems to assume PEDs provide.

No wonder kids are so screwed up-the adults act like kids!"

Who says kids are so screwed up? What do you mean by that?

BTW, greenies aren't the same as taking steroids. If it were the same, we would have had more 50-70 hr hitters in before the 90's Yes, I can see Omar Moreno taking greenies....and hitting 60 homeruns a year & Willie Wilson hit one 500 ft!

So PEDs are okay as long as they don't bump your home run totals? Is that the measure of okay?