HCKL Chat/Trades

Copying from league message:

In my tough division, I might be able to stay at around .500, but probably won't be able to compete. With that being said, I'm putting some quasi-rentals (although some of these guys will have decent cards next year) on the block. I do feel that my team can stay competitive, so they won't be that cheap.
The guys on the block are:
Matt Cain
Justin Ruggiano
Wilton Lopez
Erik Kratz
Ryan Doumit
Mauro Gomez
Mark Ellis
Roger Bernadina
Cody Ross
Nick Markakis
Chipper Jones

My only completely untouchable players are:
Manny Machado
Felix Hernandez
Matt Moore
Robinson Cano

Hey HCKL gang,

In some other leagues a few of us are in, there has been some discussion around Leashed/Unleashed for this kind of keeper league. I have always been a strong opponent of Unleashed sets especially for a pre-card league, as it removes some of the skill to the game (i.e. rewards the lottery winners too strongly).

That said, I was very PO'd this year at some of the exclusions of players who met previously stated SOM thresholds (30 IP and 5 starts were 2 that Bernie has mentioned specifically in the past) and who were excluded from the basic set this time around.

So here is my proposal for HCKL next year:

1) We create our own set of clearly outlined thresholds for inclusion/exclusion
2) We manually exclude any cards that do not meet our thresholds for inclusion

Here are my initial suggestions for thresholds:

Pitchers:
1) Pure RPs: 30 IP or more gets in, no matter the card value - this is half an RP season.
2) SPs or SP/RPs: Any player with 30 IP and 5 starts gets in. If SOM converts an S/R card to R3 then the above rule would apply.

Hitters:
1) Any player with over 150 PAs (AB + BB) gets in.
2) Any catcher with over 50 PAs and card value of under $7.5M gets in.
3) Any player with 50-149 PAs and card value of less than $5M gets in.

No voting at the moment, just want feedback on the concept & the threshold suggestions.

Thx,
Qk

Hey HCKL gang,

In some other leagues a few of us are in, there has been some discussion around Leashed/Unleashed for this kind of keeper league. I have always been a strong opponent of Unleashed sets especially for a pre-card league, as it removes some of the skill to the game (i.e. rewards the lottery winners too strongly).

That said, I was very PO'd this year at some of the exclusions of players who met previously stated SOM thresholds (30 IP and 5 starts were 2 that Bernie has mentioned specifically in the past) and who were excluded from the basic set this time around.

So here is my proposal for HCKL next year:

1) We create our own set of clearly outlined thresholds for inclusion/exclusion
2) We manually exclude any cards that do not meet our thresholds for inclusion

Here are my initial suggestions for thresholds:

Pitchers:
1) Pure RPs: 30 IP or more gets in, no matter the card value - this is half an RP season.
2) SPs or SP/RPs: Any player with 30 IP and 5 starts gets in. If SOM converts an S/R card to R3 then the above rule would apply.

Hitters:
1) Any player with over 150 PAs (AB + BB) gets in.
2) Any catcher with over 50 PAs and card value of under $7.5M gets in.
3) Any player with 50-149 PAs and card value of less than $5M gets in.

No voting at the moment, just want feedback on the concept & the threshold suggestions.

Thx,
Qk

Thanks for starting the discussion Qk. As one who frequently lets the hard work of SOMO ownership slip by, I am grateful when I see the product of good thought and reasoning from someone who succeeds in this game. I like the idea you propose, since I had usually be a automatic NO on Unleashed, except in Unleashed Keeper League,until the recent revival of GMKL where I completely agreed with you that the calls there really belonged to the Invigorator who was willing to resurrect the League!

I am not sure about the money values in the last section, but only because I have not really looked at the idea of a catcher ei with a value of over 7.5M being out... I look forward to the discussion.

I am OK with all of this except that:

I would raise the C threshold to 100 PA - this is a 12-team league, there are still going to be 50+ catchers to choose from for use.

I would lower the card value thresholds to say $4.5 million for position players and $3 million for catchers if they are unleashed. I just don't like the idea of guys with less than 100 AB's in real life dominating a league.

Perhaps we should put a maximum value on unleashed pitchers for the same reason.

Here's my thoughts,

Use All cards,
with no restrictions,

that's all I got.

"I just don't like the idea of guys with less than 100 AB's in real life dominating a league."

Hey Craig - just to give you the background, from a league philosophy standpoint HCKL has never been against low PA cards dominating the league. I get why some people are against it personally, but that has never been the point here. The point in keeping to Leashed in the past was to give everyone a level playing field, and at the same time wanting some reward for owner with the foresight to draft or trade for the high value cards in the next set, whether they were low usage or not. What I didn't want was a high number of extreme cards suddenly available at the front of a draft. But if the thresholds are clear, those cards will usually be snapped up in the Supp draft or late prospect draft.

I'm in plenty of other leagues, online and netplay both, where there are usage limits. As part of SOM online, HCKL is not one of those leagues. So my only intent with the above suggestion is to set a level playing field, NOT to restrict playable cards. With low-usage cards normal injury rolls will usually prevent league domination in any case. And I was astounded by the number of usable cards that SOM excluded in this year's set. So at this point I am leaning towards no value limits on cards or very high limits, but clear thresholds on PAs/IPs/starts.

Again, no decisions yet, useful discussion points, but wanted everyone to know the context here.

I see where you guys are coming from. But if we're going to let one or two unleashed cards in, it's going to be an administrative nightmare. Glad you're doing it and not me.

I see where you guys are coming from. But if we're going to let one or two unleashed cards in, it's going to be an administrative nightmare. Glad you're doing it and not me.

exactly, HENCE



Use All cards,
with no restrictions,

I think Niner is probably right on this; in or out. We chose unleashed, so all the cards is easiest and keeps fights at bay.

I think I'm out on using any unleashed cards. It removes some of the skill and strategy.