Drafting Broken

I'm surprised this hasn't made it on this thread yet...

Garcia's Blog XXXVI- Live Draft Update
postThu Aug 29, 2013 1:58 pm

Hey guys,

Today I want to let everyone know where we are regarding the live draft feature. This feature has progressed tremendously over the last few weeks and internal testing is about to begin soon. Once that is completed a small number of members from the community will then be able to test it. I have actually seen an initial layout of the draft page and it looks great so far.

The major change between our live draft and the live draft featured on The Sporting News is the ability to use a salary cap. Back on the Sporting News every player could be drafted as salary could not be taken in account. Now you must budget your team on the fly. Breakdowns for salary between hitters and pitchers will be shown throughout the draft so you know where you're spending your allotted salary cap at a quick glance.

More robust/comprehensive access to information will be available as well. This means better sorting and filtering options along with more information. In addition, All-Time Great Leagues will now have the ability to draft the year of their choice for players with more than one card. For example, all versions of Babe Ruth will be available; you are not 'stuck' with a certain year.

Lastly, this draft module had to be built completely from scratch. As such it will be much more stable than the draft module previously incorporated into the game on The Sporting News. Just as our site overall has become much more stable than it was previously, so will the live draft module.

As we get closer to final testing more information will become available on exact features and an update on when live draft will potentially become available to use. Our programmers continue to work hard on this and it is coming along.

If you have any questions on this or anything please write in to onlinegamesupport@strat-o-matic.com. Have a great Labor Day Weekend and talk to you all next Thursday!

-John

It is funny that some people think that those evil veteran managers outplay others in the autodraft the way it is. Look, everyone knows who the best players are in a player set. If a veteran manager goes for Brandon Moss like everyone else he has the same chance to not get him as the next guy. The only way a veteran manager could "outplay" anyone else maybe not going for the big stars but listing all 2nd and 3rd best players hoping everyone else goes for the marquee names and misses. Is that gaming the system?

If you make up a roster of 25 players you would like that fits under the salary cap it is virtually guaranteed that no matter if you are in an autodraft or a live draft you will not get all the key players you were planning on. There are not 12 Brandon Moss' or 12 Miggy Cabreras to go around. When the best players are drafted in most cases the next best just isn't as good.

Remember what Tom Hanks said. "There is no in baseball."

Very well said. Any drafting system is going to involve knowledge of the game and the drafting system itself, and those with more of that knowledge will usually do better in the draft...there is no escaping that. It isn't "gaming the system"; it's playing well within that system, and no draft system (outside of a completely random one) will prevent such play from happening.

short sighted people...can't see past the tip of your nose.

Where the fuck does anyone say they want to get all their picks? no one expects that. Don't break things off to a tangent that no one is even suggesting.

The issue is the FACT that you get 0 picks, where as someone else could get all 25, even if you have the same exact draft card. How can you NOT see that as an issue. Probability is low, but it could happen. The system is inherently flawed.

People don't want a change to a more standard draft style (miss your first pick go to 2nd, miss that go to 3rd) for no reason other than are lazy to learn a new draft style, or they want to keep the advantage they have over less knowledgeable people.

I've been playing here since the end of the 2001 season, I put a lot into the failed SOM football. I'm not talking about this as a point, put me in a league with a bunch of noobs I will end up with a great team. The issue is the draft methodology is flawed, and quite frankly plain wrong.

You could still do the replacements as they are now, but giving people the ability to a least get a good portion of their draft card, would make things more fair, a more equitable distribution of resources, you would have less of those team where (in small player pools) are essentially a dead team walking after the draft. Everyone would get some high picks. It would also make ranking simpler, just place the player you care about most up high. No secret, no I can get this player at this spot, so game within the game.

And that's where it breaks down. Guys like Nevdully who spend thousands decry a change as he will give up the game after. The guys who spend a lot want to keep their advantage in the game. Why change it to make is easier and more fair? Too many damn commuinists on these boards......

Geekor,

This is a friendly forum; there is no need to bring hostility or profanity into it, particularly since younger participants read them. That being said, I will address all of your points in a friendly, profanity-free manner.

1. Neither I nor LMBombers said anyone wanted to "get all their picks". Nowhere in our posts did we "break things off" to that "tangent." LMBombers merely asserted--as you, I, and everybody knows--that no draft system will allow you to get "all the KEY players" a player wants...that is a significant difference.

2. As you yourself note, the "probability is low" that one player can get all 25 picks while another can get 0. We can both agree that that hardly ever happens, if ever at all. So asserting that that makes the system "inherently flawed" is using a nightmare scenario, which you yourself admits is improbable, as a way of completely disparaging a system which avoids that scenario a very high percentage of the time, if not always. Being "flawed" in this immensely low probability way in no way makes it "plain wrong."

3. Neither LMBombers nor I necessarily said we wouldn't move to a new drafting system. We were merely stating that liking the current system, and using knowledge in that current system to (hopefully) succeed in that system does not mean the manager is trying to gain an unfair advantage in that system (or "game it"); he or she is merely playing it as it is meant to be played. As I added, this would be the case in all drafting systems that were not entirely random. Even the system you proffer in your post would favor players with greater knowledge of the game than players without; that is a fact.
That being said, liking the current system and preferring it over a suggested new one does not necessarily make one "lazy" as you say. Many current managers just like the current system and the particular challenges it offers; it is part of the game they enjoy, and they would prefer it over suggested new drafting systems they consider inferior. That does not make them lazy; it makes them discerning. I, for one, would welcome a superior drafting system, but only if it was truly superior to our present system I sincerely like.

4. The system you offer is interesting. However, you don't specify how it could guarantee that all players get "a good portion of their draft card" or "some high picks" as you say. Since most managers will still most likely target the same good players, your suggested system of "placing the player you care about 'most high' " will most likely (if not definitely) run into the same "problem" our current one faces--some managers will be very happy and get the key players they placed "most high," and some will be very disappointed and will not.

I look forward to further friendly discussions with you on this matter and others, as well as playing against you in our current drafting system or whatever superior drafting system happens to arise.

The odds that another manager selected every one of your players--or even most of your players--in the exact round you selected them is astronomical. But let's assume that happened. Then to figure the odds that you would get zero picks (assuming one manager matched each of your picks) is 0.5^25.

You can figure out what this number is yourself if you open up windows calculator and enter 0.5*0.5 followed by = 24 times. Here's the answer I got:

2.980232238769531e-8

I don't know exactly what that number is, but it's really, really small! And you would have to multiply that result times another really, really small number (that represents the odds that all your picks were exactly matched in the first place) to get an even smaller number.
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I don't agree that the best expert managers don't want change because they will lose an advantage. If SOM institutes a "fairer" system does anyone really doubt these expert managers won't continue to win?

Perhaps SOM should come up with a better draft procedure. However, in my opinion, the present system is exciting and fun, albeit frustrating as hell when you have a really bad result.

Part of the skill and fun (fun for some of us, that is) is trying to decide who to draft high and who you can let slide to the bottom of your list. For example, in my 90s keeper league, I have had great success with Raul Mondesi. I also know I can draft him near the bottom because nobody else ever takes him. In fact, in our latest season, I got 24 out of 25 players (four are protected and therefore automatic) through a combination of luck and knowing who to pick where.

I concede the present system is weak in sets where the pricing is uneven, such as the 70s mystery card set. However, in most cases, it does work and it's a simple system. In fact, a more fair system where you had alternates to your picks would likely be more intimidating to a new manager than the present system.
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I'm not saying there isn't a better system possible. However, I will say the system isn't as broke as some people would like us to believe. I get that some people hate the system, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad system.

Geekor,

This is a friendly forum; there is no need to bring hostility or profanity into it, particularly since younger participants read them. That being said, I will address all of your points in a friendly, profanity-free manner.

Haha come on son, let's not get idiotic now. Stick to the facts, the guy said f*ck, oh no. Grow up man. Debate the guy or shut up, no one wants to hear you pointing out that he swore. What is this grade 5?


& Younger participants? Bwahahahaha the average age of these forums is probably 65

Remember what Tom Hanks said. "There is no in baseball."

Talk about passive aggressive. So you are practically calling him a cry baby b*tch, but he uses the F word in his post and you communist creeps gang up on him and make it seem HE'S being immature. Haha OK. At least Geekor has some damn Heart and speaks up for the greater good. You clowns (don't cry now) have selfish interests in mind. If you REALLY gave a sh*t about the game itself and the future of strat o matic you would listen to logic and reason but obviously that is not an area you guys excel in.

short sighted people...can't see past the tip of your nose.

Where the fuck does anyone say they want to get all their picks? no one expects that. Don't break things off to a tangent that no one is even suggesting.

Yes, you did go off on a tangent. So now we r going to play semantics with our words? Let's stick to the forest and leave the individual trees alone. You obviously get the point of what he is saying, so stop playing childish games and stick to the facts.

Someone with the 3rd pick received 4 out of my top 5 ranked players. HOW IS THAT FAIR?! IN WHAT WORLD IS THAT FAIR!??
It is NOT. You know it. I know it. The whole forum knows it. The ONLY reason you could ever say it is "Fair" is because YOU personally know how to manipulate it to get those great players.

Your argument is that "everyone should know the rules, bla bla bla"
Don't you think this game has enough of a damn learning curve already??
Isn't the point of ANY business to grow? To EVOLVE. To put out a better product and attract more customers??

SO WHY then are you fighting this? Because you are SELFISH. Period.

It's obvious strat 0 matic is being held hostage by a few bullies who spend thousands of dollars a year and wine and pout and threaten quitting if they don't get to keep their creepy manipulative advantages.

Really strat 0 matic? are you that short sited?

We were merely stating that liking the current system, and using knowledge in that current system to (hopefully) succeed in that system does not mean the manager is trying to gain an unfair advantage in that system (or "game it"); he or she is merely playing it as it is meant to be played.

Man, this steaming pile of bullsh*t stinks worse than my dogs gas after a bowl of meat stew.

Pee-Yu.

Here's some Beano for your dog: suggest a better system. If you were in charge, how would you structure the pre-waivers non-frenzy draft?

"Someone with the 3rd pick received 4 out of my top 5 ranked players" -- nope. There is no "3rd pick" or any other ranking. Take that into account while concocting your Beano.

short sighted people...can't see past the tip of your nose.

Where the fuck does anyone say they want to get all their picks? no one expects that. Don't break things off to a tangent that no one is even suggesting.

Yes, you did go off on a tangent. So now we r going to play semantics with our words? Let's stick to the forest and leave the individual trees alone. You obviously get the point of what he is saying, so stop playing childish games and stick to the facts.

Someone with the 3rd pick received 4 out of my top 5 ranked players. HOW IS THAT FAIR?! IN WHAT WORLD IS THAT FAIR!??
It is NOT. You know it. I know it. The whole forum knows it. The ONLY reason you could ever say it is "Fair" is because YOU personally know how to manipulate it to get those great players.

Your argument is that "everyone should know the rules, bla bla bla"
Don't you think this game has enough of a damn learning curve already??
Isn't the point of ANY business to grow? To EVOLVE. To put out a better product and attract more customers??

SO WHY then are you fighting this? Because you are SELFISH. Period.

It's obvious strat 0 matic is being held hostage by a few bullies who spend thousands of dollars a year and wine and pout and threaten quitting if they don't get to keep their creepy manipulative advantages.

Really strat 0 matic? are you that short sited?

F33dM3,

I wrote a cogent post that supported my arguments (including the one concerning the supposed "tangent" you spoke of) with sound logic and clear, ordered articulation. You could have responded to it in a similar fashion...although you may not have the ability to do so. Instead, you gave me and the rest of the forum an ad hominem rant that either grossly misrepresented my arguments or avoided addressing them altogether.

If you actually do have the ability to rationally and cogently respond to my previous post, and actually address its actual arguments, I will welcome it and respond in kind. Until you do, consider that previous post my stance on the matter. I will not respond to any further errant rants and/or vituperations, which will most likely come it its place, although they have been (and probably will be) sources of amusement to my friends and me...your subsequent anecdote about your "dog's gas" was a particularly wonderful representation of both your maturity level and your skills in argument.

Cheers,
L. Strether

In regards to several obnoxious posts above (the person would want me to mention their ID), I hate to resort to name calling. However, if it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, talks like a troll, it must be a troll. Even his unmentioned ID is a clue!