Super relievers

Sorry but Gates Brown and players of that ilk should never have been included in the set in the first place. Perhaps a decision maker on player adds would have enough sense to say, hey no one under 250 ab or 275 plate appearances. Have some common sense, SOM All Time Greats is, ahem, the name of the game here. Yeah I really want Devon White etc.

Know your history, the game was originally and for years here called "All Time Great Teams"

Bernie didn't want Gates Brown in either, but relented to keep many in the community happy since his was a popular card request.

Thanks nev for talking about your conversations with Bernie and how that led to what is. Whether I agree or not do feel better that there was thought that went in to things being the way they are.

I think the point you make about anyone being able to use it and Murray not being the only possible one is valid. There are sufficient number of great relievers, at least in 12 team leagues for everyone to have one useful super reliever if they choose.

Me personally I might do away with it. I would prefer fatigue to be applied when a pitcher throws in 3 straight games. At least when that pitcher tosses multiple innings. But at the same time I realize as unrealistic as it may seem it is also unrealistic to have a simple 5 man bullpen that does not change throughout a season. We need to keep in mind that a real team would not have any reliever tossing the innings we see here. But that real team would have pitchers it could call up from the minors for a game or two or three if their bullpen got stretched out by a couple back to back starters leaving early. Something has to give.

Guess what I am saying is I would like to see some kind of adjustment but would caution about going too far.

Both Murray and Wilhelm came in F0 against me recently. Murray survived, Hoyt got hammered. I'm not a fan of using them myself, but I don't mind super relievers if this is a consistent use of fatigue.
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 347890/602

Play no-DH leagues. HAL will pinch hit enough to neutralize the advantages super reliever settings give you.

Nev who is this Bernie you speak of? Is he from before darkness covered the once fair land of ATG? Is he the Wizard that the "Old Ones" talk about in hushed tones?

Bernie was a 1-man show when SOM Online was on The Sporting News (TSN) web site. He became a SOM employee when the game was transitioned to the SOM web site. It's possible he still works for SOM, but I don't think so. Bernie used to communicate regularly with users. He wrote Bullpen v2. He created the ability to watch games. He would respond to and fix problems, tweak the logic based on user feedback, or sometimes just explain why things were the way they were. SOM put a stop to that.

Of course, now it's just a black hole. There is never any response to wish list posts or other change requests. There is JG's weekly blog, which is a good thing. Yet, even then the communication is strictly one way; you can't even publicly respond.

Now to be fair, SOM has done some wonderful things with the online game, and they have devoted more resources to the game than TSN ever did. That state of the game is better than it has ever been. However, I just don't understand why they refuse to have a dialogue with their users.

coyote303 wrote:

Bernie was a 1-man show when SOM Online was on The Sporting News (TSN) web site. He became a SOM employee when the game was transitioned to the SOM web site. It's possible he still works for SOM, but I don't think so. Bernie used to communicate regularly with users. He wrote Bullpen v2. He created the ability to watch games. He would respond to and fix problems, tweak the logic based on user feedback, or sometimes just explain why things were the way they were. SOM put a stop to that.

Of course, now it's just a black hole. There is never any response to wish list posts or other change requests. There is JG's weekly blog, which is a good thing. Yet, even then the communication is strictly one way; you can't even publicly respond.

Now to be fair, SOM has done some wonderful things with the online game, and they have devoted more resources to the game than TSN ever did. That state of the game is better than it has ever been. However, I just don't understand why they refuse to have a dialogue with their users.

I fondly remember those days and I agree you could usually get an answer from Bernie. It may not be the answer you want, but in was an answer. Maybe it's Hal himself. Of course I mean Richman and not our beloved computer manager. Maybe he is resistant to change and wont take any suggestions. I recently read an article about how APBA is trying is trying to survive by distancing themselves from the "ghost" of their former owner (I think his name was Seitz) who was famously resistant to change. Now I realize Mr. Richman is still alive and I wish him many more years of health but maybe he doesn't want to change or listen to anyone else.

My feeling is that if super-relievers were somehow banned, managers would just find another angle to exploit.

The fact is that ATG is a fundamentally unrealistic environment for a lot of reasons that are pretty obvious. But that's also part of what makes it fun: you can have Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, and Willie Mays in the same outfield. Which is definitely cool, but is—well—unrealistic.

Your team might hit 350 HR (or more). Your team might score 1,250 runs (or more). Your top power hitter might club 85 HR (or more). You might lead the league with 4.75 team ERA (or higher)

You might also get 300 IP out of a reliever. That's not very realistic, but neither are any of the other outcomes cited above.

For me, ATG7 isn't about realistically modeling baseball as it is actually played. With the awesome player set we've got, with the extreme ballparks, with the high team bankrolls (even 80M can buy much more horsepower than is available to actual teams), and with the array of bargain role players, realism in any meaningful sense is out of the question. These same cards might perform realistically in a normal baseball environment, but ATG7 isn't a normal baseball environment.

What ATG7 is about, for me, is a clash of team designs and a clash of strategies. And from that perspective, the super-reliever is just one of those strategies.

Well said.

I couldn't agree more Outta Leftfield!