+302

Fox/Beckert was absolutely me, though if I had a good lead off guy I'd prefer Schodenienst.

Actually that's not accurate...Go as far back as we can (I did) and you'll see exactly what I expected....Most of the community including The Last Druid was using Mazeroski as their left handed platoon at 2b while to my knowledge I was the first, or one of the first, to regularly use Beckert...unfortunately this goes back further than we can currently research.


http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/league/301

This is such an obvious team in a lefty park that it almost seems as common as a Dale Murray team in any league.

First this had me smiling and then it got me researching....Murray was added to ATG 6 on or about October 20th


He was on my first team drafted, it was a 100m Minute Maid team. (league started 10-24)

I then drafted him and got him at 20 on my next team a 200m cap

My next team was at 140m and I listed and got him at 16th

I then got him at various spots on every one of my next 9 teams before losing him on my next team listing him 7th

Got him on my next 4 200m teams.

Got him 11th on my next team at 100m

So far I drafted and got him 17 of 18 teams.

Also got him on my next team at 100m 2 more at 200m before losing him once at 200m

I then drafted and got him 31 of my next 34 teams at various caps and various spots including several at 80m listed around 20th He also went undrafted and unused in several 80m leagues.

So I guess it took awhile before he became such an obvious choice to the community.

Although I didn't do the legwork, you would find similar but slightly less usage on the McCovey card for my lefty teams.

And imo McCovey, like Griffey, or the "right" E. Mathews card for that matter, "were not" such obvious choices in lefty parks, especially at higher caps, until the community saw him on so many of our teams (Last Druid and Myself)

So much more to say but I'll try and be brief.

There are many guys that do get this crazy game (PJ being one of them) who would have, could have, might have gotten to all these "not so obvious choices"...Example, could be as soon as PJ laid eyes on Dale Murray's card he immediately recognized his value....But since PJ doesn't play as much or across higher caps that maybe he just didn't get to Murray much...I have no doubt many here know a good card as soon as they see it regardless of how often they come to use it..


Of course there is no expected ownership of players, or stadiums, or strategies, and certainly there will be similarities of players across rosters because they are obvious choices....And yes I am flattered when PJ or Last Druid give me props for player evals or park strategies....And I don't mind at all when they apply something they've seen from one of my teams...

But also unfortunately many here just blindly play follow the leader. The leader in this case meaning most visible, not necessarily the best. There's no attempt at learning or trying to understand the why, just following whatever they see...I could site three pretty glaring examples of this type of player but it gets too drawn out and wordy...So I'll leave you with this

When Len Barker gets drafted in 200m...That's right Len Barker in 200m, by 4 different owners simply because they saw him on a handful of my 200m teams while I was testing any S5 (Barker) to see if HAL removes him faster (and how much faster) than the usual S8's andS9's found in 200m...That's not an attempt to learn...that's not reading his card...that's not checking Diamond Dope for projections...that's not checking Diamond Dope for Actuals on Barker...That's just blindly doing whatever Nev does!...and please believe me there is A LOT of that type of thing that happens here.

Not that anyone should care but that "type of copying" is not flattering...and I don't see how it benefits anyone.

I had several teams start on 10/24/09. Murray was not available to those leagues. But other leagues that started on 10/24/09 he was available. Must have added the cards on a Thursday or Friday.

This team started on 10/24/09. It was my first team drafted after Murray was released.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/352639

The instant I first saw that card I knew he would be a game changer. Of course in the next instant, I had to look him up in baseball reference, cause I had never heard of him.

When did DD stop listing usage numbers? I used to go there all the time for research. Now we have to scroll through old actual stats the hard way, but I always use a mixture of actuals, the DD pools, and what's left from the actual cards themselves. You can't expect people like me to pretend we don't see that McCovey and Griffey's 9.66 and Matthews all perform above and beyond when we see those teams in play.

I don't argue with you about some of the more blatant and weird copy cat stuff, but when you see cards perform, that info becomes public.

This whole thing makes me think of the new restaurant that comes to town. A few locals "discover" it, frequent it, but then word spreads and the review hits the paper and the next thing you know you can't get a seat at Dale Murray's Bistro. Nothing the locals can do but remember the days when they didn't need a reservation two weeks in advance...and they didn't know who Dale Murray was.

You can't expect people like me to pretend we don't see that McCovey and Griffey's 9.66 and Matthews all perform above and beyond when we see those teams in play.

Sure and you make my point....If you have to wait and see a body of work I guess the choices aren't so obvious?

If I spent the amount if time playing this and played the number of teams that you do, you might have a point but most if us do this on a different scale.

So true in some ways, but a card is a card is a card....either it's obvious or it's not.... and that's why I bristle at the suggestion that using Griffey, McCovey, Mathews are "no brainers" when the fact is, most came late to that conclusion (we agree for some, in part because they don't play as often) and many still select the wrong Mathews card.

I bet Last Druid if given 20 guesses could list 15 of my most often used usuals in 200m

Marichal
Wagner
Berra
McCovey
Griffey
Snider

Just to name 6.

And I list most of them pretty high..and of course I must get them pretty often for Druid to recognize them as my usuals....and they were on my list today in my 200m draft

Another vet of 200m leagues drafted his team....

Somehow, for some reason, and for pure coincidence (if what he told me earlier today post draft is to be believed) his team looked very very different than it usually does...same HR park...just pretty different type draft for him...

Certainly within his "right" but hard to believe when he told me his team consisting of Marichal, Wagner, Berra, McCovey, Snider and Griffey being similar to mine was strictly coincidence.


Upon further discussion he said "wanted to try some different players".


So I guess what he meant to say he wanted to drafted guys I regularly use ....I bet this doesn't happen often to most of you guys playing here (going back to what PJ said earlier) but happens to me OFTEN.

I think you've become a bit paranoid and a bit obsessed here Nev.

Yes in a balanced HR park at 200m with a player pool of 14 billion to chose from he just happened to list half dozen I regularly use and higher than I listed them too...just me being paranoid lmao

I mean who wouldn't list Marichal in a HR haven of a park, it's a "no brainer" right ....and Berra at C instead Gibson or Piazza, Campy, Hartnett, of the dozen other more expensive C's is another obvious choice yes?

I'm going to excuse myself from this thread now I believe people are peering in my window and recording my every move....My house is probably bugged and I'm certain my wife is an spy and my son an alien.

Paranoid, me?