NSKL Main Thread

these are a few quotes from Peter & Ted in their response to my initial question of their ballpark deal(s).

"As the engineer of this series of deals, I want you to know that I thought hard about how it would play out. I considered that the rules allow an owner to trade ballparks at anytime without any time limitations, and I obviously decided to take advantage of that element in the rules to acquire a new park. Beforehand, as I looked to simply trade ballparks, it became clear talking to owners that a straight trade was unlikely to occur and that I would have to get "creative." "

"I would also like to say that I do see how this could be seen as a circumvention of the spirit of the rules."

these are a couple of quotes from Peter in his response to me after I first questioned this trade.


"I agree, I thought people might potentially find our trade questionable, but look at it this way:"

this is Ted's lead off line quoted in his response to me.

their full responses can be found on page 33 of our league thread as I was just highlighting a couple of bullet points in their response(s) to me.

Thanx Again Everyone for your time.

Rick P

Hoboken Astros

Wow, I better watch my mouth and assemble my legal team

Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted--
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm
Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted--
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

Rick,

All Peter and I did was to treat trades and drops as two separate entities, with different rules governing each. It's a valid interpretation what the rule, as currently written. If you disagree with this interpretation, go take a look through the boards or emails and find some discussion related to new players and park trading. I don't see how you can say that it's legal for new players to trade a park after dropping one, but not for everyone else, unless we made that a specific rule (in which case it needs to be in the list of rules). If you find something that negates what I'm saying here, I will be more than happy to declare this trade illegal and reverse it.

Otherwise, you simply disagree with the rule itself, which is also fine, but it's unfair to then accuse us of any wrongdoing. In that case, let's just have the vote and potentially change the rule based upon the vote. I see no reason to rehash this and stir up more bad blood.

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm
Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

Ted made this statement back when Peter joined in 2012:

Stadium Changes
Postby TefJ » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Guys,

We allow managers to change stadiums every 3 years, or when new managers join. That means that only RickP and John Then are not allowed to change stadiums. If anyone else would like to change, it's a first come, first served basis, and let's set a deadline for changes of the end of the FA draft.
TefJ

Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm

It appears that, even though it was not in the rules, new teams were able to select a new stadium.
( see 2nd example of new team getting to change stadium below)

Given these two examples of new teams getting to change stadiums, perhaps Peter should have quit the league and then rejoined the league. If he had done that than he would not have had to trade his 2 6 round picks for the 9th and 10th round picks from Ted.

******************************************************************************************

Ted also made this statement when Splinter joined in 2011:

by TefJ » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:18 pm

According to Billy, Splinter was first to reply with a definite affirmative, so he gets the team. To everyone else, thank you for your interest, we will definitely contact you first should an opening arise in the future.

Welcome aboard, Splinter! Currently, you have Yankee Stadium, but you may choose any of the unclaimed ones, there is a post a little higher on this page of the thread with the taken ones, except Coors has been chosen, and Wrigley is available.

Note, for the upcoming draft, only CARDED players are available. I will try to get a list of eligible picks done tomorrow or Thursday, so we can start the draft on Friday. Players must have between 25 and 30 players, for 10 to 15 picks.

As was mentioned briefly by Jay, prospects in this league are any uncarded player who is the property of an MLB team, and this year's (2011) draft picks are not eligible, should the MLB draft begin before ours ends. Thus, Ben Sheets was eligible as a prospect, and Carpenter was in the past.

I will post the general order for the draft soon, and Billy has a list of picks that have been traded.
TefJ

Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm

Somehow Ted failed to mention trading stadiums in this 3rd example of letting new owners change stadiums:

Postby TefJ » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:43 pm

John,

Your ballpark was Wrigley. Billy can correct me if I'm wrong, but we usually let new players choose a new park that isn't already taken. You can also change stadiums once every three years, if your stadium no longer suits your team.

Here are the currently taken stadiums:

John - Wrigley
WPWangfuddle - US Cellular
Steve Davis - Comerica
Litangel - Great American
RZepernick - Progressive Field
Ineluki - Yankee Stadium
Thisisray - Chase field
BillyV - Camden Yards
Russ1409 - Minute Maid
ndowdy - PNC Park
JayW - Miller Park
Rick P - Citizen's Bank
TefJ

Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm

Everyone,

There is a problem with our rules and especially how we interpret the rules differently.

Litangel and later myself (because our rules were not updated) had a problem with Ted's interpretation of the rule re: the promotion of prospect players. The rule stated that prospects could be promoted at any time, but when Litangel tried to do so during a draft, he was told he couldn't by Ted. And I was told when I tried to do the same thing a year or two later, that there was a vote to support Ted's interpretation.

I bring this up because Ted and Peter did something a league member had issue with that was not stopped at a that time. Not only did Ted and Peter get to do their trade/moves but there was also not a vote by the league to determine if their interpretation of the rules was approved by the league.

Neil points out that we should determine if Peter and Ted's actions should stand and then fix the rule, but his comments so far have been ignored.

So now we are voting on a new rule, instead of fixing the one that exists.

We are not treating similar problems consistently and we are not treating our members as equals.

Also note that Rule #9 in league setup states the following:

9) There are no specific rules against "roster dumping." Owners no longer in a pennant race can use their best judgement in determining the makeup of their team, provided that all general roster size limits are met. However, it is expected that all owners will act in the best interests of the game.

It is expected that all owners will act in the best interests of the game.

I think it is in the best interests of the game, that the league approves of any actions that are deemed not clear to all league members and then determined by vote if we cannot unanimously agree on the rule. If we are fixing an existing rule it should also not require a super majority vote in order to fix it.

Therefore, this whole thing needs to be revisited and all members need to take an active part in fixing it.

All owners need to act in the best interests of the league instead of their best interests.

Jay